Highway Lighting Costs

[Conan71]

My guess is that it gets really dark with a new moon.  Can you see the Milky Way?  (Not the candy bar.)

Absolutely, very, very clear here.  We don't know what light pollution is.  Last night was one of those nights.  We get the biggest kick out of telling the story about telling my wife's dad it was a Milky Way night when we came home from dinner one night.  He looked up and said: "I can't see it, there's a band of clouds in the way..."  "Uh Dad..."

It would be a photographer's dream out here.  One of these days I might spring for some good photo equipment or just wait until I can find a talented photographer who wants to do some trade out in exchange for a few nights lodging.

[Townsend]

That's a sign of old age, Townie.

Shhhheeeeeeeeeiiiiiiit - don't need that sign to remind me

[patric]

All I have to do is leave home and drive in any direction out of our village to see why we don't need highway lighting.  There are some full moon nights you could almost drive with no lights at all.

When its overcast you could almost do the same thing in Tulsa... from the light reflected off the clouds 

Its been drizzling for a couple days now; bonus points to those who noticed the reflection from the lights on the wet pavement obscures some lane markings.

[Weatherdemon]

When its overcast you could almost do the same thing in Tulsa... from the light reflected off the clouds 

Its been drizzling for a couple days now; bonus points to those who noticed the reflection from the lights on the wet pavement obscures some lane markings.

Lane markings on the IDL and other local highways are done with non-reflective, thin, spray paint that aren't visible except in the prefect lighting conditions. Well, where they haven't been worn off like in the NW corner of the IDL.

[patric]

Lane markings on the IDL and other local highways are done with non-reflective, thin, spray paint that aren't visible except in the prefect lighting conditions. Well, where they haven't been worn off like in the NW corner of the IDL.

Retro-reflective (reflects light from the direction it came) paint is federally mandated, so there might be a problem with that.
Its not designed to reflect light from streetlights but rather from automobiles, so it can be used where there are no streetlights (90% of highways).

Tulsa is way behind in lane markings (expressways especially in need), so I concur with your statement.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Lane markings on the IDL and other local highways are done with non-reflective, thin, spray paint that aren't visible except in the prefect lighting conditions. Well, where they haven't been worn off like in the NW corner of the IDL.

Should not be non-reflective.   

Worn down is another problem that this state chooses willfully to ignore.

[Weatherdemon]

Retro-reflective (reflects light from the direction it came) paint is federally mandated, so there might be a problem with that.
Its not designed to reflect light from streetlights but rather from automobiles, so it can be used where there are no streetlights (90% of highways).

Tulsa is way behind in lane markings (expressways especially in need), so I concur with your statement.

The standard used to be a thick layer that had some level of reflectivity but several streets in and around Tulsa have had a very thin layer put down recently with white/black alternating to provide contrast but it only lasts about a year and is nearly impossible to see in the rain.

[patric]

The standard used to be a thick layer that had some level of reflectivity but several streets in and around Tulsa have had a very thin layer put down recently with white/black alternating to provide contrast but it only lasts about a year and is nearly impossible to see in the rain.

Alternating black-white striping is on state/interstate but ive never seen it on city streets.  The purpose is to compensate for reverse-contrast where a white line might appear in silhouette.  Rain can obscure painted markings (even retro-reflective paint) and street lighting can actually make the problem worse when the lights reflect off the wet streets.

The answer has been RPMs (Raised Pavement Markers) that rise above the rainwater coating but they dont play well with snow plows.

[patric]

Now that the lights are coming back on, pedestrians are treating expressways like city streets again it would seem.
Im aware of at least three auto-peds in as many weeks... people betting their lives that the streetlights will protect them as they stroll across 60-70mph traffic.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/state-troopers-seeking-public-help-to-locate-vehicle-involved-in/article_3552410e-c314-5440-959c-4c34c895861b.html

[heironymouspasparagus]

The answer has been RPMs (Raised Pavement Markers) that rise above the rainwater coating but they dont play well with snow plows.

Saw some 1954 versions of those on the Mother Road a couple weeks ago.  Took a ride and saw some of the old road with those markers.

[patric]

Tulsans paid $10 Million to fix the expressway lights that gave them the illusion of safety.

https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/update-pedestrian-killed-by-suv-on-inner-dispersal-loop-was/article_3ed69db5-837d-55bb-8323-f89e1c424be5.html

[patric]

The Whirled's photos show a fully-functional set of streetlights at the site of this fatal accident.




Some experts in highway lighting say recent research suggests a brighter highway is not necessarily safer.

A member of the national Transportation Research Board's Committee on Visibility said lighting has been shown to cut the number of crashes at "conflict points" where traffic comes together. But between those points, he said, "there really wasn't a large relationship between lighting and reduction in crashes."

https://www.baltimoresun.com/features/bs-xpm-2011-01-25-bs-md-highway-lighting-20110124-story.html

[patric]

This on top of the $10 Million?


TULSA, Oklahoma - Despite millions of dollars spent to fix highway lights in Tulsa, hundreds of them are currently dark, waiting for repairs to electrical cables, replacement of fuses, or poles.

At the same time, a major repair project on the inner dispersal loop is wrapping up as the city comes to the end of $5.8 million dollar push to get  the lights on.

The problem was mainly people stealing copper wiring a few years ago and now it's a backlog of routine maintenance. The City says vandalism cases  dropped substantially once workers started using aluminum wire, installed inside more secure conduit and junction boxes.

Now the problem is more routine: blown fuses and downed poles, or outages caused by aging equipment. "We have lots of cars that run off the road and poles seem to be the thing that everybody hits," says Terry Ball, the supervisor in the Streets Department who oversees the repairs. "When we have storms come through, they'll knock out sections, blow a fuse and take a circuit out."

The city says some old lights are rusting out, and funding for replacements usually comes only with large highway projects.
http://www.newson6.com/story/39961248/dollar58-million-spent-on-highway-light-repairs-in-tulsa-over-4-years

[dbacksfan 2.0]

Personally, I think it's more people in Oklahoma don't know how to drive. I won't claim that people out here in the west are the best drivers, but after my trip to Tulsa for my fathers funeral in November 2017 and spending a week driving in Tulsa, I was never so ready to get back to the west for dealing with drivers. I've driven in Mexico, Phoenix, Tucson, San Diego, LA, San Francisco, as well as most all of CA, AZ, and OR and yeah the traffic is bad, the drivers are so much better regardless of whether there's highway lights or not.

[Conan71]

Personally, I think it's more people in Oklahoma don't know how to drive. I won't claim that people out here in the west are the best drivers, but after my trip to Tulsa for my fathers funeral in November 2017 and spending a week driving in Tulsa, I was never so ready to get back to the west for dealing with drivers. I've driven in Mexico, Phoenix, Tucson, San Diego, LA, San Francisco, as well as most all of CA, AZ, and OR and yeah the traffic is bad, the drivers are so much better regardless of whether there's highway lights or not.

Yep, one thing I don't miss about Tulsa is the traffic and the drivers.