Obama and Wright

[Hometown]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

quote:Originally posted by Hometown

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

Ah, but this would never, ever fly if it were a white candidate who went to a church headed by an anti-Semite.  He'd have been drummed out of the campaign already- forced to step down.

I fail to see the difference in someone being a member of the Aryan Nation for the last 20 years and claiming suddenly to have not realized the message being thrown out by the leaders was one of hate and intolerance based on race.  Because as we all know, it's just an innocent brotherhood of people of a similar race, right? [B)]

I'm stunned that Obama has prominent Jewish backers.  This "spiritual advisor" of his shares similar views with the Revs. Jack$on and $harpton on Jews.

"I didn't know."  What a great mea culpa.

For those that don't know -- Conan is a Republican hack.

Conan, we Democrats are working things out here but I want you to be assured we are going to whip the pants off of McCain and you too.

No one wants to give Baby Bush a third term.

You are well aware that McCain does not have the support of your core constituents.  Your old coalition of the greedy and the religious nuts has fallen apart.  Amen.

I can't wait for McCain's first temper tantrum.  It ain't going to be pretty.

Good luck with whipping the pants off McCain.  You guys are going to need to pull the reins in on the Clinton machine before your party self-imolates before the general election.

In case you guys didn't know Hometown is a liberal flack from San Francisco who keeps dumping on Tulsa and Oklahoma in general.

Born at Hillcrest.  Schooled at Lincoln, Hoover, Whitney, Hale, TJC, OU ... and then some.

Proud Tulsa liberal, life-time Democrat and financial supporter of Hillary Clinton.

Conan, I'm saving up for you baby.  Don't look now but old Grandpa McCain is red in the face and ready to blow.

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by Hometown

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

quote:Originally posted by Hometown

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

Ah, but this would never, ever fly if it were a white candidate who went to a church headed by an anti-Semite.  He'd have been drummed out of the campaign already- forced to step down.

I fail to see the difference in someone being a member of the Aryan Nation for the last 20 years and claiming suddenly to have not realized the message being thrown out by the leaders was one of hate and intolerance based on race.  Because as we all know, it's just an innocent brotherhood of people of a similar race, right? [B)]

I'm stunned that Obama has prominent Jewish backers.  This "spiritual advisor" of his shares similar views with the Revs. Jack$on and $harpton on Jews.

"I didn't know."  What a great mea culpa.

For those that don't know -- Conan is a Republican hack.

Conan, we Democrats are working things out here but I want you to be assured we are going to whip the pants off of McCain and you too.

No one wants to give Baby Bush a third term.

You are well aware that McCain does not have the support of your core constituents.  Your old coalition of the greedy and the religious nuts has fallen apart.  Amen.

I can't wait for McCain's first temper tantrum.  It ain't going to be pretty.

Good luck with whipping the pants off McCain.  You guys are going to need to pull the reins in on the Clinton machine before your party self-imolates before the general election.

In case you guys didn't know Hometown is a liberal flack from San Francisco who keeps dumping on Tulsa and Oklahoma in general.

Born at Hillcrest.  Schooled at Lincoln, Hoover, Whitney, Hale, TJC, OU ... and then some.

Proud Tulsa liberal, life-time Democrat and financial supporter of Hillary Clinton.

Conan, I'm saving up for you baby.  Don't look now but old Grandpa McCain is red in the face and ready to blow.

Got news for you sweetheart, McCain's got nothting to worry about right now.  He's laughing his donkey off.  The GOP decided to unify, the Democrats are still going to be swinging all the way to the convention as it looks right now.  

Hillary is banking on Obama capitulating and accepting some sort of olive branch from the Clintons including their support in eight years.

Do you really think another five months and a week of infighting between Hillary and Obama are going to be good for the Democrats?  Not hardly, it's all a bonus for McCain.  Worst thing he's got to worry about is figuring out who his running mate will be.

I'll be shocked beyond words if Hillary concedes before the convention or even after.  This is but the start of a stream of dirty laundry you are going to hear all the way to August.  I think it could be bad enough to piss off the left-leaning moderates to vote for McCain just because they will be so sick of Hillary and Obama by November.  

If Hillary is the nominee, even with Obama as a running mate, I think there will be a significant number of black voters who will feel hookwinked and either won't vote or will vote for McCain to punish the Democratic party.

You better hope your girl accepts a loss gracefully, or you can expect at least another four years of a Republican White House.

[FOTD]

He's going to spin out of control at some point.
The age thing is really starting to show...
And then there's this....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-ymHdbd_tU&NR=1

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by FOTD

He's going to spin out of control at some point.
The age thing is really starting to show...
And then there's this....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-ymHdbd_tU&NR=1

Wow, that video really swayed me.

[}:)]

[FOTD]

'As of 9 this morning, the number-one most-watched video of the day on YouTube has been Barack Obama's speech on race, which at that point had generated just about a million views in less than 24 hours. Let me rephrase that. Nearly a million views for a 37-minute political speech not involving a woman singing in hot pants:'

http://www.time-blog.com/tuned_in/2008/03/youtube_dumbing_us_down_or_sma.html

Monday March 17, 2008
The difference between Jeremiah Wright and radical, white evangelical ministers

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/03/17/wright/index.html

"And James Inhofe -- who happens to still be a Republican U.S. Senator -- blamed America for the 9/11 attacks by arguing in a 2002 Senate floor speech that "the spiritual door was opened for an attack against the United States of America" because we pressured Israel to give away parts of the West Bank."

[PonderInc]

quote:Originally posted by RecycleMichael

I just watched it in on CSpan. It was quite different from his big campaign speeches. He was soft-spoken and reflective.

It was a great speech.

I just watched it too.  I've never heard a politician speak so frankly about race in such a grown-up way.  This is why I'm an Obama supporter.  When he speaks, it's intelligent and thoughtful.  I want to hear what he has to say.  With everyone else, I cringe because they sound so insincere...or they are just spouting carefully formulated sound bites to please the base. Or, in the case of the current occupant...well...I could go on and on...

If the pen really is mightier than the sword, Obama has a chance to transform the country.  His presidency would be a blow to the false divisions that partisan politics encourage and thrive on (but which serve only to generate apathy and disdain for the civic process). He doesn't speak in those terms.  Which I appreciate, b/c I think we all have a lot more in common than the Fox news commentators want to admit.

While I like Hillary, I worry that she won't be able to convince people to share her vision for the policies she would like to implement. Her speeches just aren't that compelling.  (Leadership isn't about telling people what to do, it's about inspiring people to share your vision.)  

(I also worry that the side-show, paparazzi circus following the First Gentleman would overshadow any chance Hill has to communicate through the media on serious issues.  This is the one thing I am certain we could expect on "day one" of a Hillary presidency: Bill will be there, and everyone will looking to see if his fly is zipped.  I am so tired of that.)

[FOTD]

FWIW, since most here of us here are white and muddle classed:
Big issue in America is class
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/356402_class26.html

"In one sense, Obama's point couldn't be clearer: Race is a distraction from class-based inequities. And if we dismiss working-class resentment as camouflaged racism, we will be distracted by the specter of race. So why has no one noticed that the much vaunted "race speech" is also a class speech? "

"The irony is that Obama's speech urging us not to be distracted by race has so far had quite the opposite effect. Obama now needs to confront with equal candor the lesson we were taught by that "first black president": It's the economy, stupid."

Now, go back to the threads on 1804!

[Conan71]

And what favors have entitlements which typically are favored by liberals and directed at blacks done for them?  More inner-city poverty and racial envy which make their way into the acrid words of people just like Jeremiah Wright.

[FOTD]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

And what favors have entitlements which typically are favored by liberals and directed at blacks done for them?  More inner-city poverty and racial envy which make their way into the acrid words of people just like Jeremiah Wright.

You're missing the target....

[USRufnex]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

And what favors have entitlements which typically are favored by liberals and directed at blacks done for them?  More inner-city poverty and racial envy which make their way into the acrid words of people just like Jeremiah Wright.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/01/21/politics/main537363.shtml

(Condelezza) Rice said she had benefited from affirmative action during her career at Stanford University.

"I think they saw a person that they thought had potential, and yes, I think they were looking to diversify the faculty," she said.

"I think there's nothing wrong with that in the United States," Rice said. "It does not mean that one has to go to people of lower quality. Race is a factor in our society."

In a Friday interview with the American Urban Radio Network, Rice said she agreed that affirmative action is needed "if it does not lead to quotas."

In a speech to the Republican National Convention in 2000, Powell sharply criticized GOP attacks on affirmative action.

"We must understand the cynicism that exists in the black community," he said. "The kind of cynicism that is created when, for example, some in our party miss no opportunity to roundly and loudly condemn affirmative action that helped a few thousand black kids get an education, but you hardly heard a whimper from them over affirmative action for lobbyists who load our federal tax codes with preferences for special interests."

Sunday on CNN, Powell said he remained "a strong proponent of affirmative action."

------------------------------------------------

IMHO, the southside of Chicago is its own country... gotta tell you, I've worked enough day jobs with the "sistahs from the southside" to get a taste of the dynamic... and a friend of mine taught English and Creative Writing at all-black Englewood High School-- one of those "failing schools" that was closed down a couple of years ago... just so you know, Obama's church is very active in helping the poor...

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=88941182

...Trinity is in a largely impoverished neighborhood that Marty says is a tough place to fend for yourself, let alone a place to help others. "Yes, there'll be some anger about injustice," he says. "You can't be on the south side of Chicago and not be a victim of a lot of that."

Marty says he doesn't know any church that carries on more ministries to help area residents. Trinity's list is long: Career development, economic empowerment, college placement, credit union, HIV, diabetes and more.

As a white man, Marty says he's never felt uncomfortable visiting Trinity. "You walk in and people greet you at the door," he says. "You're likely to meet someone you know... Physicians, prominent judges...It's a very busy place. You're brought in. They put you in a nice seat and you're ready to go."

http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2008/01/14/obama/

quote:Ironically, Chicago became the political capital of black America because it was so racist. For most of the 20th century, it was the most segregated city in America. Blacks used to have a saying: "In the South, the white man doesn't care how close you get, as long as you don't get too high; in the North, he doesn't care how high you get, as long as you don't get too close." During the Great Migration, the refugees who rode up from Mississippi on the Illinois Central Railroad were crowded into the Black Belt, the South Side ghetto portrayed in Richard Wright's "Native Son." Because the black population was so concentrated, white politicians couldn't gerrymander it out of a congressional seat. One of De Priest's successors, William Dawson, was the most powerful black politician in America. He helped boot out the predecessor to Mayor Richard J. Daley, the current mayor's father, who bossed Chicago from 1955 to 1976. In return, Daley's machine rewarded Dawson with control of the entire South Side.

[Conan71]

Ruf shoots & misses.  Wasn't referring to Affirmative Action, I was referring to hand-out programs.

[FOTD]

Conan....do you have a problem with "hand up" programs?

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by FOTD

Conan....do you have a problem with "hand up" programs?

No I don't.  There are some which work great.  A perfect example is educational grants and low-interest student loans.

It has not escaped me that there are many self-sufficient people who have had to rely on temporary government support to get out of a situation they never thought they'd find themselves in.  

Problem is though, politicians use social programs to buy votes and enslave one generation after another into mediocrity and government dependence.

[RecycleMichael]

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/04/theres_no_excusing_obama_on_wr.html

There's No Excusing Obama on WrightBy Ed Koch

I am dumbfounded that there has been no drop in Barack Obama's standing in the polls following revelations that he sat in Rev. Jeremiah Wright's church for 20 years and did nothing, publicly or privately, to voice disagreement with Wright's hate speech. Indeed, Obama's poll numbers are going up. The most recent Gallup national tracking poll shows Obama with 51 percent and Hillary with 43 percent of Democratic voters.

One reason for the up tick in Obama's popularity may be that Hillary Clinton has had to explain her out-and-out falsehood of having been under sniper fire years ago in Bosnia. Her account of landing in Bosnia amidst sniper fire was totally demolished by a video clip taken at the time and now flashed all over tv showing her strolling across the tarmac with Chelsea to receive flowers and kisses from a waiting child.

Are the actions of our two United States Senators, both candidates for the Presidency, to be condemned equally? I don't think so. Hillary's failure, as gross as it may be, is related to self promotion. Barack's failure, in my judgment, is an out-and-out failure of moral strength, as he was unwilling to stand up to his bigoted minister, Wright, for 20 years while Wright denounced from the pulpit whites, Jews and the State of Israel.

We learned recently that Wright's defamatory comments published in church bulletins were, on occasion, also directed at Italians. ABC News reported on March 27th, "Trumpet Newsmagazine, of which Wright is the chief executive officer, published an article written by Wright in which he described the crucifixion of Jesus as 'public lynching Italian style.'" He also wrote, according to CNSNews.com, "The Italians for the most part looked down their garlic noses at the Galileans." Finally, CNN reported on March 28th that, "They [church bulletins] also quote a historian who said that 'what the Zionist Jews did to the Palestinians is worse than what the Nazis did to the Jews.'"

Let me report on the mail I received after my commentary of last week criticizing Senator Obama and Rev. Wright. Some of that correspondence defended Wright's attacks on the U.S., whites and Jews and Obama. Here are some excerpts from three readers of my commentary:

1. "I have read your recent message re: Sen. Obama's speech and I find your attacks totally unconvincing. The fact that you disregard the Reverend's positive contributions to his community and the positive aspects of the relationship between the Reverend and the Senator demonstrates either ignorance or bad faith, either of which is unbecoming of a man of your influence."

2. "I disagree with all that [Wright's charges against America] and ALL his hate speech. But I have no problem concluding that it does not represent Obama and that Obama should not be deemed unworthy of being president because he embraced the good in Wright and did not walk away when he heard the bad."

3. "I thought Sen. Obama's race speech was one of the most inspiring, hopeful, uplifting speeches I have ever heard in modern politics. You and I have been in politics long enough to know that guilt by association is a great way to create doubts about a candidate, but I have no doubt Sen. Obama has the best chance of getting us beyond stereotypes."

These readers seek to excuse Barack Obama's conduct, but I remain unconvinced. Obama told us in his brilliant and moving speech on March 18th that "I can no more disown him than I can disown the black community. I can no more disown him than I can disown my white grandmother," who engaged, he said, in racial stereotyping.

But now, on television talk programs, he tells us a somewhat different story. According to The New York Times of March 29th, "Mr. Obama, who has run the gamut of news shows in recent weeks to defuse the ado over his relationship with Mr. Wright, had no trouble finding longwinded words to demarcate his allegiance to his longtime pastor. 'Had the Reverend not retired and had he not acknowledged that what he had said had deeply offended people and were inappropriate and mischaracterized what I believe is the greatness of this country, for all its flaws,' he said, 'then I wouldn't have felt comfortable staying there at the church.'"

Did something happen since his speech of March 18th when he, in effect, offered excuses for his pastor's hate speech and his own reaction? I think not. Rather, I think he decided his prior silence was unacceptable. So now he tells us that but for his pastor's retirement and "acknowledge[ment] that what he had said deeply offended people and were inappropriate and mischaracterized," he would have left the church.

May I suggest Obama's sudden expressed desire to separate himself from his pastor came only after the media storm that followed the public outcry voiced at his pastor's remarks, particularly his having said, "No, no, not God Bless America. God damn America." If Obama becomes the Democratic nominee for president, he will be subject to withering attacks by the Republicans on this issue.

Does Obama's belated recognition of his minister's bigotry satisfy me? No, it does not. Indeed, I am surprised that Obama's description of his minister's hate speech, which he condemns, is limited to the words, "controversial," "inexcusable," "inappropriate, "troubling" and "appalling." Why hasn't he called it by its rightful name - hate speech?

I think what Hillary did in exaggerating the danger to her in Bosnia and seeking to convey a bravery that she did not exhibit in landing there years ago is to be condemned and not passed over as she and many of her supporters do, by saying that she "misspoke." Nevertheless, Obama's explanation of why he was silent until now and the manner in which he characterizes Wright's remarks are worse. Interestingly, he also refers to an apology by Rev. Wright, which I've not seen published anywhere. Have you?

And, more importantly, why did it take him 20 years to come to this conclusion?

Ed Koch is the former Mayor of New York City.

[FOTD]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

quote:Originally posted by FOTD

Conan....do you have a problem with "hand up" programs?

No I don't.  There are some which work great.  A perfect example is educational grants and low-interest student loans.

It has not escaped me that there are many self-sufficient people who have had to rely on temporary government support to get out of a situation they never thought they'd find themselves in.  

Problem is though, politicians use social programs to buy votes and enslave one generation after another into mediocrity and government dependence.

Politicians use power and entitlements to buy votes a ton more than social programs.
If we have been enslaved by the government into mediocrity it's more a result of dual income parenting than the lack of government supervision....