New BMW520d gets better gas mileage then Prius

[TUalum0982]

brings up the old debate of which is better, diesel power or hybrid?? Keep in mind the 5series bmw is alot larger car then the prius and weighs about 500lbs more.

here is the article:

http://www.technoride.com/2008/03/bmw_diesel_beats_prius_in_econ.php

thoughts??

EDIT: Moved from tulsa discussion forum to here.

[inteller]

with diesel at $3.79 last time I checked ($3.91 in Arkansas), the mileage difference is moot.

somebody needs to figure out the diesel situation fast or all of these new diesels are going to fall flat on their faces.

Now if it got 80 mpg, now we are talking.

and a prius only 40mpg?  pancakes?  most people in a prius are closer to 50.

[TUalum0982]

quote:Originally posted by inteller

with diesel at $3.79 last time I checked ($3.91 in Arkansas), the mileage difference is moot.

somebody needs to figure out the diesel situation fast or all of these new diesels are going to fall flat on their faces.

Now if it got 80 mpg, now we are talking.

and a prius only 40mpg?  pancakes?  most people in a prius are closer to 50.

if you only drive in the city.  The prius is backwards of a typical gas engine, it gets far better gas mileage in the city then it does on the highway.  On the highway its just another 4cylinder.  This "roadtest" was done over 500 miles on mostly highway driving (100 in city) I would take a nice 5series bmw with alot more room and ammenties over the underpowered, very ugly looking prius anyday!  Not to mention if there wasnt an almost 600lb weight difference, it would be greater

[TUalum0982]

quote:Originally posted by inteller

with diesel at $3.79 last time I checked ($3.91 in Arkansas), the mileage difference is moot.

somebody needs to figure out the diesel situation fast or all of these new diesels are going to fall flat on their faces.

Now if it got 80 mpg, now we are talking.

and a prius only 40mpg?  pancakes?  most people in a prius are closer to 50.

if you only drive in the city.  The prius is backwards of a typical gas engine, it gets far better gas mileage in the city then it does on the highway.  On the highway its just another 4cylinder.  This "roadtest" was done over 500 miles on mostly highway driving (100 in city) I would take a nice 5series bmw with alot more room and ammenties over the underpowered, very ugly looking prius anyday!  Not to mention if there wasnt an almost 600lb weight difference, it would be greater

[Conan71]

A diesel offers the advantage of no battery bank, and bio-diesel is a far better renewable fuel than ethanol.

With Diesel at $3.79, bio-d becomes a lot more competitive.

[waterboy]

There's no doubt the diesels have potential for great mileage. Volkswagon's diesels give pretty impressive mileage and performance. But,they are heavy, stinky and noisy, characteristics that don't compare well to the Civic and Prius hybrids. Besides the higher price per gallon, and the sparse availability, check out the area around a diesel fuel pump and note they are usually pretty nasty.

I visited the car show last weekend and was anxious to see what new fuel efficient vehicles would be offered. Surprise! After five years of war that has boosted fuel prices and treatened supply...the average new car got 20mpg or less. The new hyped Malibu? 20mpg. Escape? 18mpg. Trucks are still hovering at 12mpg. The same two hybrids were shown that have been there since '03 otherwise the emphasis was on speed, power, and glam.

Notably, the highest fuel efficient manufacturer, Volkswagen, wasn't even there.

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

A diesel offers the advantage of no battery bank, and bio-diesel is a far better renewable fuel than ethanol.

With Diesel at $3.79, bio-d becomes a lot more competitive.

oh really?  and how many *convienent* places in tulsa can you get bio-d for less than regular diesel?

and the prius will still beat you off the line.

[TUalum0982]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

There's no doubt the diesels have potential for great mileage. Volkswagon's diesels give pretty impressive mileage and performance. But,they are heavy, stinky and noisy, characteristics that don't compare well to the Civic and Prius hybrids. Besides the higher price per gallon, and the sparse availability, check out the area around a diesel fuel pump and note they are usually pretty nasty.

I visited the car show last weekend and was anxious to see what new fuel efficient vehicles would be offered. Surprise! After five years of war that has boosted fuel prices and treatened supply...the average new car got 20mpg or less. The new hyped Malibu? 20mpg. Escape? 18mpg. Trucks are still hovering at 12mpg. The same two hybrids were shown that have been there since '03 otherwise the emphasis was on speed, power, and glam.

Notably, the highest fuel efficient manufacturer, Volkswagen, wasn't even there.

since you speak of the car show.  I noticed also that VW wasn't there.  I also didn't see BMW or Audi.  I was interested in getting some info on the new A5/S5.  Beautiful 2dr car.

[waterboy]

No matter what tests you use, the physics always has proved that electric motors are more efficient than combustion engines. They provide high torque from 0rpm. Thats why they're faster off the line. New electrics like the Tesla humiliate the 505hp Vette and with a lot less sound and fury. They are less complicated, more reliable and have more potential cheap fuel sources than combustion engines. BMW, GM and the others have more to gain by resisting these basic facts for the moment. One would hope that incentives could be provided for our manufacturers to convert their power plants.

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by TUalum0982

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

There's no doubt the diesels have potential for great mileage. Volkswagon's diesels give pretty impressive mileage and performance. But,they are heavy, stinky and noisy, characteristics that don't compare well to the Civic and Prius hybrids. Besides the higher price per gallon, and the sparse availability, check out the area around a diesel fuel pump and note they are usually pretty nasty.

I visited the car show last weekend and was anxious to see what new fuel efficient vehicles would be offered. Surprise! After five years of war that has boosted fuel prices and treatened supply...the average new car got 20mpg or less. The new hyped Malibu? 20mpg. Escape? 18mpg. Trucks are still hovering at 12mpg. The same two hybrids were shown that have been there since '03 otherwise the emphasis was on speed, power, and glam.

Notably, the highest fuel efficient manufacturer, Volkswagen, wasn't even there.

since you speak of the car show.  I noticed also that VW wasn't there.  I also didn't see BMW or Audi.  I was interested in getting some info on the new A5/S5.  Beautiful 2dr car.

This auto show was a bust. It looks like they contracted it out to a third party that specializes in producing car shows rather than utilize local dealer associations. Someone called Southwest Importers or such. Few local dealers had salespeople to explain/tout their products. The presenters for the cars were models from Houston, La, Dallas etc. that travel with the show and were hardened performers. They knew very little about the cars. They couldn't answer basic questions about performance. The women weren't that pretty or personable and the men were slick hucksters.

The Audi lineup is sweet. A couple years ago at the show one of the local VW salespeople led me through their lineup and I was impressed with his knowledge and the sophistication of the vehicles.

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by inteller

with diesel at $3.79 last time I checked ($3.91 in Arkansas), the mileage difference is moot.

somebody needs to figure out the diesel situation fast or all of these new diesels are going to fall flat on their faces.

Now if it got 80 mpg, now we are talking.

and a prius only 40mpg?  pancakes?  most people in a prius are closer to 50.

Not only that, but what do you think the chances are that the BMW520d is going to retail at or near the $23,000 price tag of the Prius? Not good. More likely twice the cost. Would take a few years to recapture the extra cost of BMW prestige pricing.

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by inteller

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

A diesel offers the advantage of no battery bank, and bio-diesel is a far better renewable fuel than ethanol.

With Diesel at $3.79, bio-d becomes a lot more competitive.

oh really?  and how many *convienent* places in tulsa can you get bio-d for less than regular diesel?

and the prius will still beat you off the line.

It's coming.  Diesel near $4.00 makes it more viable and more companies will get into the market instead of the small hucksters who were getting into gov't incubation programs two years ago without a clue about fuels, or running a business for that matter.

[cannon_fodder]

Diesel.  

There are many models out there that get better mileage than the hybrids - especially for highway use.  35-45 mpg for a new diesel is not uncommon, some of the new VW diesels get 50 mpg.  The engines and drive trains are much more reliable, the vehicles proven, and less expensive.  

Not too mention in the long run they are much better for the environment.  Not only do they use less gas in many instances, but they lack the dual systems required for hybrids AND last longer (reducing manufacturing pollution).

Hard to find good ratings, since most do not include diesel next to gas.

[TUalum0982]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

quote:Originally posted by TUalum0982

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

There's no doubt the diesels have potential for great mileage. Volkswagon's diesels give pretty impressive mileage and performance. But,they are heavy, stinky and noisy, characteristics that don't compare well to the Civic and Prius hybrids. Besides the higher price per gallon, and the sparse availability, check out the area around a diesel fuel pump and note they are usually pretty nasty.

I visited the car show last weekend and was anxious to see what new fuel efficient vehicles would be offered. Surprise! After five years of war that has boosted fuel prices and treatened supply...the average new car got 20mpg or less. The new hyped Malibu? 20mpg. Escape? 18mpg. Trucks are still hovering at 12mpg. The same two hybrids were shown that have been there since '03 otherwise the emphasis was on speed, power, and glam.

Notably, the highest fuel efficient manufacturer, Volkswagen, wasn't even there.

since you speak of the car show.  I noticed also that VW wasn't there.  I also didn't see BMW or Audi.  I was interested in getting some info on the new A5/S5.  Beautiful 2dr car.

This auto show was a bust. It looks like they contracted it out to a third party that specializes in producing car shows rather than utilize local dealer associations. Someone called Southwest Importers or such. Few local dealers had salespeople to explain/tout their products. The presenters for the cars were models from Houston, La, Dallas etc. that travel with the show and were hardened performers. They knew very little about the cars. They couldn't answer basic questions about performance. The women weren't that pretty or personable and the men were slick hucksters.

The Audi lineup is sweet. A couple years ago at the show one of the local VW salespeople led me through their lineup and I was impressed with his knowledge and the sophistication of the vehicles.

that is one thing I have never understood.  I know cars pretty well and if you are selling that product, you better know every single detail about that specific model I am interested in.  And if you don't know go and find out.  But come to think of it, I noticed what you are referring to.  The only local salespeople I saw were on the lower level with Jim Norton Toyota and Ford with their customized trucks.  A few yrs back you could get some useful information from local dealers like Joe Marina, Don Carlton, and so forth.  My have things changed.

I was travelling to Amarillo this past weekend and noticed diesel prices were 3.96.  I remember a few yrs back when diesel was always cheaper then unleaded.  Once again, my have times changed.

[inteller]

there were more than just volume dealers there.  Infiniti was there because I went to the dealership and they told me most of the sales guys were at the show.

But I agree the show is horrible.  It doesn't even rank up there for a minor regional show like the Cleveland Auto show does.  considering the regional draw it could have Tulsa should work harder with vendors to get on the show circuit of NAIAS, LA, NY.  There is plenty of lag time between those major shows and they could get the makers to bring their cars by.  Or alternatively Tulsa could reposition themselves as a green auto show.  let nothing in the building that gets less than 25 combined.