Hillary has momentum

[we vs us]

quote:Originally posted by Hometown

We have also never seen Obama throw a punch.  What is he going to do the next time we learn about something troubling from his past?  Make another speech.  That would only reinforce the notion that his one talent is making speeches.

It might be a refreshing change from the same old punch-counterpunch wars of political attrition that we've been living with for years and years. Or at least since the beginning of the Clinton era.  If, after 17 years or so, you're still looking for more of the right-left slugfest, where progress is incremental and triangulated, and everyone begrudges even miniscule compromise, then by all means let's elect Hillary.  I certainly can't blame her solely for the last 15 years of yuck, but she was a key player in the sick political dynamic of the nineties.    

Is Obama better?  Dunno, but he's promising, and he's doing his damndest to avoid some of our deeper political ruts.  That Obama was able to pull a speech of any caliber whatsoever out of the Wright mess -- which, let's admit, was, for all its sensational aspects, just another exercise in gotcha-by-association -- is pretty impressive to me.  

As pure tactics, it was a middling effort.  If the goal was merely to put Wright behind him so he could get on with the race, then yeah, it wasn't impressive. But he wasn't going for tactics, as far as I can tell.  He made a conscious effort to step out of the expectations that the workaday political narrative demanded; he chose instead to make the Wright controversy central to his campaign.  Obama's virtually guaranteed that Wright will continue to be brought up, and I think he did that completely consciously.

That's the reason it's such a monumental thing -- apart from the fact that he's the front runner in a tightly contested Democratic race who's willing to grab that famous third rail of politics with both hands.

PS. I would wholeheartedly vote for Hillary in the general if she gets the nod.  I've been a big Hill supporter in the past, and continue to recognize her as an historic figure in her own right.  IMO, this era in US history calls for a skillset entirely different than what she's offering, though.

[Chicken Little]

Good observation, weevus.  Obama's speech was strategy, not tactics.  Strategy will win this election.

Remember 2000 when Bush was the "compassionate" conservative?  Depending on who you talk to, he's neither, but the strategy helped him win an election.

And for those of you wondering if Obama's strategy is working, I present Chris freakin' Wallace, of all people, scolding his Fox friends for Obama bashing:

http://www.redlasso.com/ClipPlayer.aspx?id=b9797761-37d1-4b7d-8d27-d72bb37e5516

How often do the dems have any effect on the Fox news media narrative?  Just about never, if you want to know.

[Hometown]

The Contemporary era of dirty politics began with Tricky Dick.  The Republicans wrote the book.  Democrats have never done anything but play defense in that regard.

Like I've said before, I would like to see Democrats on the offense.  I would like to see us dole out some punishment.

Wevus, you mention triangulation.  The bedrock of the Clinton strategy was triangulation (finding the middle ground) and compromise. Remember, "Getting some of what you want is better than none of what you want"?

No more punching it out in the general election.  Dream on.  We're going to have every nanosecond of "God Dam America" memorized after seeing it five million some odd times.  Meet the Press was playing sound bites Sunday.

I suspect Obama's speech was in the can and that he quickly tailored it for a response to the Wright situation.

Like I've said, if Obama is our candidate I will support him with enthusiasm.  So don't be surprised if you see me arguing for Obama.  

But meanwhile, I believe that Ms. Clinton's claim that the first thing she would do is get us back on the road to fiscal responsibility is exactly what the doctor ordered for these precarious times.  

I believe in track records and rewarding good service.  Remember the Clinton economy?

Frankly, my opponents in these little disagreements are like their candidate, short on specifics and long on generalizations.

[Hometown]

quote:Originally posted by Chicken Little

We have a bumper crop of big problems.  We need someone who can help us understand our duty as Americans and help us understand the challenges before us.  When the going gets tough, Americans have an unparalelled ability to transcend our individual fears, weaknesses, and predjudices and forge new solutions as countrymen.  It is a great gift.

After two election cycles of pee-yer-pants fear mongering, disinformation and distraction, and unhealthy selfishness and divisiveness, Americans are longing for someone to remind us that we have hard work to do and that we are, inextricably, on the same team.

Obama's doing a great job of this.  He didn't condemn Bill after Bill said dumb stuff in SC.  Smart people sometimes say dumb things.  That is what we in the business of living call, life.  Redemption and reinvention are a part of our culture, and perhaps our greatest strength.  Bill gets that.  Bill is that.

Obama and his team are doing a pretty darn good job of challenging politicians and pundits to rise above "slice and dice" politics.  He's not going to send Wright, or anybody else, to the gulag.  Instead, he's going to challenge us all to use our brains as well as our mouths; from time to time we all say things that are beyond the pale.  We have to change, and we have to be big-hearted about it if we are going to build strong coalitions.  What kind of Union are we left with when we turn our backs on everybody who makes a stupid remark?

Oh, and for those of you who think that speeches are unimportant, here ya go:

quote: We are not enemies, but friends. We must not be enemies. Though passion may have strained it must not break our bonds of affection. The mystic chords of memory, stretching from every battlefield and patriot grave to every living heart and hearthstone all over this broad land, will yet swell the chorus of the Union, when again touched, as surely they will be, by the better angels of our nature.

-A.Lincoln, First Inaugural Address, Monday, March 4, 1861

Where do you think we'd be today if we didn't have this man, and words like that, to sustain us through the Civil War?

To call the Clintons racist is absurd.

I think I heard most of what Bill had to say around the time of South Carolina.  I didn't hear any racism at all.  What exactly did Bill say that you believe was racist?

[Chicken Little]

quote:Originally posted by Hometown

The Contemporary era of dirty politics began with Tricky Dick.  The Republicans wrote the book.  Democrats have never done anything but play defense in that regard.

Like I've said before, I would like to see Democrats on the offense.  I would like to see us dole out some punishment.

Wevus, you mention triangulation.  The bedrock of the Clinton strategy was triangulation (finding the middle ground) and compromise. Remember, "Getting some of what you want is better than none of what you want"?

No more punching it out in the general election.  Dream on.  We're going to have every nanosecond of "God Dam America" memorized after seeing it five million some odd times.  Meet the Press was playing sound bites Sunday.

I suspect Obama's speech was in the can and that he quickly tailored it for a response to the Wright situation.

Like I've said, if Obama is our candidate I will support him with enthusiasm.  So don't be surprised if you see me arguing for Obama.  

But meanwhile, I believe that Ms. Clinton's claim that the first thing she would do is get us back on the road to fiscal responsibility is exactly what the doctor ordered for these precarious times.  

I believe in track records and rewarding good service.  Remember the Clinton economy?

Frankly, my opponents in these little disagreements are like their candidate, short on specifics and long on generalizations.

You are in the weeds, friend.  But while you are there, Chris Wallace chiding his fellow Fox idiots is not a generalization.  It's a bit of evidence that a guy who talks to us about race, as if we were adults is hard to tar as a racist.  

He's not calling (either) Clinton a racist; he's not calling Geraldine a racist.  He's simply saying that racism is a tough issue, and it touches all of us every day.  People say things that make other's cringe, don't pretend it doesn't happen; and don't run away from it.  Nobody demands perfection, just honesty.  He's not, as Rush claims, going to be the racial-healer-in-chief.  But he is a guy who's not afraid to talk about the issue.  That will resonate.  And as important, there's no hypocrisy factor.

Compare that to Kerry's swiftboat problem.  Kerry leaned heavily on his war hero status.  So, when the Swiftboat Liars for Truth attacked him, it got attention because there was this potential for hypocrisy.

Obama's trying hard to make sure that race does not become the central issue.  And the freaks that press it are starting to look like freeks.  It's strategy.

[Chicken Little]

quote:Originally posted by Hometown

To call the Clintons racist is absurd.

Yes, it is.  And I didn't.  So, get over it.  I said that he made some dumb remarks.  The Jesse Jackson allusion was dumb...not racist...just dumb.  If anything, it was a failure to recognize that Obama was as formidable as he is.  Bill's pretty close to that lady he endorsed, so it's forgivable.  But, it was a dumb remark.

[Hometown]

Bill Clinton said "Jesse Jackson won South Carolina."  What was dumb or even remotely racist about that?

[Chicken Little]

First, listen to yourself.  Did I say racist?  Did Obama?  Both deserve and answer from you.

Now, why was it a dumb remark?  It was addressed to superdelegates.  Guess what started happening 15 minutes later?  People started asking what a superdelegate was, who they were, what there purpose was, and why were they created.  Sure, superdelegates were created to block Jesse's nomination, to protect us from ourselves.  But that's not really the half of it.  It opens up a far-reaching can of worms that spans almost every negative that Hillary now faces:  political elitism, the DLC and Democrats who "know better", the Republican Lite policies,  the caving in, abandonment of principles, and the quiet contrition that served only to hand the keys to a bunch of wacko Republicans.

Its a giant can of worms that makes Hillary look like an elitist and Barack look like a winner.  Hillary's team has been wrangling with that albatross ever since.  That's dumb.

[USRufnex]

It's code.

Slick Willie wanted a Sister Souljah moment for his wife....

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E0CEFDB1231F93BA15755C0A964958260

"Mr. Clinton brought the Uzi of power and position to bear on someone with a dart gun full of poison. Those little suckers sure sting. But it's clear who's better armed. It's especially clear when the man should be carrying a lamp instead, looking to illuminate.

All of us rushed right in to say that Bill Clinton was right, right, right, no doubt about it. And there was no doubt that Sister Souljah's words have been unconscionable. But as any debater can tell you, right may give you a lovely puffed-up feeling, but sometimes it does not advance the argument."

[Chicken Little]

quote:Originally posted by USRufnex

It's code.

Slick Willie wanted a Sister Souljah moment for his wife....

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E0CEFDB1231F93BA15755C0A964958260

"Mr. Clinton brought the Uzi of power and position to bear on someone with a dart gun full of poison. Those little suckers sure sting. But it's clear who's better armed. It's especially clear when the man should be carrying a lamp instead, looking to illuminate.

All of us rushed right in to say that Bill Clinton was right, right, right, no doubt about it. And there was no doubt that Sister Souljah's words have been unconscionable. But as any debater can tell you, right may give you a lovely puffed-up feeling, but sometimes it does not advance the argument."

Thanks for that.  Ohhh, Bill Bradley...now there was a great American.  What's he doing these days?

[guido911]

quote:Originally posted by guido911

The Washington Post points out the whopper told by Hillary re: 1996 Bosnia trip

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/21/AR2008032102989.html

Nevermind that whopper about her Bosnia trip. Clinton says she misspoke. That makes it all better now.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/03/24/clinton-misspoke-about-bosnia-trip-campaign-says/

[Conan71]

"But her account has been challenged, first by Sinbad, the comedian, who traveled with her, and then by news organizations, most notably the Washington Post, which awarded her four "Pinnochios" which it gives for major "whoppers.""

Wow, that's great when you have a comedian challenging the first lady's account of a trip.  If it was that dangerous, would they have been sending civilian entertainers?  Don't think so.  The WaPo award is pretty damn funny as well.

[Gaspar]

Oh, I think we're going to be in for a lot of this.

"I just mis-spoke when I said that people WERE SHOOTING AT ME"  No biggie!  Just a slip of the tung when I implied that I, and my entourage of other people who possess brains and clear memories, were under attack."  "I just figured that they wouldn't remember."  "What I meant is that it seemed like we were under attack!"


I did not have sexual relations with that woman. . . ok, I did, but it wasen't sex. . . ok, it can be considered sex depending on what your definition of "is" is.

[FOTD]

"The 'Skeeter Bites Report: What's Behind Those Tabloid Rovian Smears of Obama. "Supporters of the Illinois senator are convinced that the articles are politically motivated, but don't know who's behind them. But an examination of the tabloids' ownership yields one very interesting finding. It turns out that American Media Inc., the parent company of the Enquirer, Globe and the Examiner, is, in turn, controlled by Evercore Partners, whose founder, chairman, co-CEO and principal owner is Roger Altman, a prominent New York investment banker. Altman is also a former deputy treasury secretary in the administration of President Bill Clinton -- and a key economic advisor of Hillary Clinton's campaign for the White House." Connect the dots. "
http://www.skeeterbitesreport.com/2008/03/new-anti-obama-smears-published-in.html

[Conan71]

FOTD- where in the hell do you keep finding these lib-tard blogs?  [}:)]