vinyl siding

[skeet]

we are looking at doing vinyl siding instead of painting our house. does anyone know a good reputable company i can call and get estimates from? thanx

[Steve]

quote:Originally posted by skeet

we are looking at doing vinyl siding instead of painting our house. does anyone know a good reputable company i can call and get estimates from? thanx

Are you in your home for the long-term?  I don't know your neighborhood or its architectural style/significance, but please view your house in relationship to your neighborhood and the surrounding homes.

I live in a historic 1950's modern Tulsa neighborhood, and I covered my facias/soffits with vinyl and aluminum about 19 years ago.  I left the vertical exterior walls in the cedar siding that was present when I purchased the house.  Granted, it has saved me from painting, but I know too that it has covered up rotting wood over time, and detracts from the period modern architecture of my neighborhood.  When the time comes in the near future, I intend to remove all the vinyl/aluminum, restore the original facings, and restore my home's look to the original.

An excellent, well done paint job will last many years, protect your home from the elements, and not distract from neighborhood aesthetics/history/architecture.  Please consider this before installing vinyl.  On the other hand, if your home is in a newer neighborhood where similar homes have vinyl siding and it would not be a detrement, then go for it.

[hoodlum]

I might also add the following

When vinyl siding becomes brittle with age, it releases chemicals into the air, including dioxin (causes cancer) and formaldehyde.

also read this page:

http://www.oldlouisville.com/circa1900/Vinyl-Lie.htm

then there is this:

Vinyl siding is not a watertight covering for a variety of reasons. The material expands and contracts with temperature fluctuations. The result of this is that vinyl siding cannot be caulked and sealed at wall penetrations like windows and doors. Wind-driven water can be forced into these gaps around the unsealed window and door trims, as well as into the overlapping ends of the siding pieces. In addition, the installation of vinyl siding requires the use of several pre-made trim pieces. These trim pieces have limitations in their applications, and they cannot possibly be bent, trimmed, and formed to meet every conceivable installation requirement.

The Washington Post explains some of the problems that vinyl-clad homes face these days:

"...for most people, the real surprise is that vinyl siding leaks -- a lot. The industry puts a positive spin on this issue, describing the siding as a 'supplemental rain screen' that works by 'reducing the amount of water that reaches the underlying weather-resistant barrier.' The Vinyl Siding Institute says, 'vinyl siding is designed to allow the material underneath to breathe; therefore it is not a watertight covering' -- which is to say, it leaks. Water enters through overlapped joints, but mainly at open-sided edge trim. Anticipating this, manufacturers provide weep holes along the bottom edges of clapboard panels. You can't stop water infiltration by caulking because, unlike stationary trim seams in wood or masonry, vinyl has to move freely."

Since vinyl siding itself is not waterproof, the building is ultimately protected by a water-resistant underlayment (house wrap), with additional protection provided by peal and stick waterproofing membranes that are used at high-risk areas such as window and door openings. Unfortunately, the water-resistant underlayment is punctured by several hundred siding nails. Also, any installation mistakes with the underlayment, or the way the underlayment is integrated with the peal and stick window/door membranes, will ultimately result in leaks.

The number of lawsuits being filed against contractors and vinyl siding manufacturers has been on the incline for many years now. Many condominiums and housing developments in the Pacific Northwest have experienced lawsuits involving vinyl siding installations. Raynproof Roofing is called quite often by people throughout Seattle and King County to investigate phantom roof? leaks, only to discover that the problem is the result of the siding.

The Ugly

Vinyl siding does not increase the value of one's home, and in some cases, can actually diminish its value if the home has historic value or is located in a nicer neighborhood with more traditional siding material such as wood, brick or stucco.

When used as a recovering material, many of the defects of the base siding will be reflected in the vinyl covering. In addition, using vinyl as a recover material thickens? the wall and many window and door trims actually get buried so you start to lose some of your home's character.

Squeaking and even clattering has been heard when the wind blows strongly against vinyl-clad homes. This is due to the way vinyl must be installed leaving the width of a dime between the nail head and the vinyl panel to allow for movement.

The other "ugly" reality that homeowners sometimes forget to consider is that the color of the vinyl will be the color of their home forever -- or until they decide to reside it with something else. Yes, it could be painted, but then you lose the low maintenance quality that it provided in the first place. Vinyl siding can also be easily damaged either by windblown debris, lawnmower debris, ladders or anything else that is harder than the vinyl. Once damaged, the entire panel must be replaced and new replacement panels will not be an exact match since vinyl does tend to fade within five years or so.


from what I have read a good paint job last 10 - 15 years, vinyl siding lasts 15 - 20 years. they basically cost the same and coupled with all the cons of vinyl siding it really isn't any better to use vinyl siding than to paint your house.

[Steve]

quote:Originally posted by hoodlum

from what I have read a good paint job last 10 - 15 years, vinyl siding lasts 15 - 20 years. they basically cost the same and coupled with all the cons of vinyl siding it really isn't any better to use vinyl siding than to paint your house.

Great points hoodlum.  We both live in the same neighborhood and know from experience.  My house still has the same mustard-yellow paint on the outside cedar wall siding that it had 21 years ago when I bought the house, and except for a few spots on the west side of the house/carport, it is still in great shape.  I know from poking and proding that the facia and soffits are another matter, probably full of rot and water damage over the years.  Since I had the facia and soffits covered with vinyl/aluminum in 1989, out of sight, out of mind.  At least the vinyl hides the problem cosmetically, but I know the maintenance issue is there and will not go away until I properly address it.

[Daniel Wright]

We had Sears do our house.  The siding tends to get moldy and has to be pressure washed. Secondly the soffet panels  disintegrated  Honestly I would just paint the place and be done with

[citizen72]

quote:Originally posted by hoodlum

I might also add the following

When vinyl siding becomes brittle with age, it releases chemicals into the air, including dioxin (causes cancer) and formaldehyde.

also read this page:

http://www.oldlouisville.com/circa1900/Vinyl-Lie.htm

then there is this:

Vinyl siding is not a watertight covering for a variety of reasons. The material expands and contracts with temperature fluctuations. The result of this is that vinyl siding cannot be caulked and sealed at wall penetrations like windows and doors. Wind-driven water can be forced into these gaps around the unsealed window and door trims, as well as into the overlapping ends of the siding pieces. In addition, the installation of vinyl siding requires the use of several pre-made trim pieces. These trim pieces have limitations in their applications, and they cannot possibly be bent, trimmed, and formed to meet every conceivable installation requirement.

The Washington Post explains some of the problems that vinyl-clad homes face these days:

"...for most people, the real surprise is that vinyl siding leaks -- a lot. The industry puts a positive spin on this issue, describing the siding as a 'supplemental rain screen' that works by 'reducing the amount of water that reaches the underlying weather-resistant barrier.' The Vinyl Siding Institute says, 'vinyl siding is designed to allow the material underneath to breathe; therefore it is not a watertight covering' -- which is to say, it leaks. Water enters through overlapped joints, but mainly at open-sided edge trim. Anticipating this, manufacturers provide weep holes along the bottom edges of clapboard panels. You can't stop water infiltration by caulking because, unlike stationary trim seams in wood or masonry, vinyl has to move freely."

Since vinyl siding itself is not waterproof, the building is ultimately protected by a water-resistant underlayment (house wrap), with additional protection provided by peal and stick waterproofing membranes that are used at high-risk areas such as window and door openings. Unfortunately, the water-resistant underlayment is punctured by several hundred siding nails. Also, any installation mistakes with the underlayment, or the way the underlayment is integrated with the peal and stick window/door membranes, will ultimately result in leaks.

The number of lawsuits being filed against contractors and vinyl siding manufacturers has been on the incline for many years now. Many condominiums and housing developments in the Pacific Northwest have experienced lawsuits involving vinyl siding installations. Raynproof Roofing is called quite often by people throughout Seattle and King County to investigate phantom roof? leaks, only to discover that the problem is the result of the siding.

The Ugly

Vinyl siding does not increase the value of one's home, and in some cases, can actually diminish its value if the home has historic value or is located in a nicer neighborhood with more traditional siding material such as wood, brick or stucco.

When used as a recovering material, many of the defects of the base siding will be reflected in the vinyl covering. In addition, using vinyl as a recover material thickens? the wall and many window and door trims actually get buried so you start to lose some of your home's character.

Squeaking and even clattering has been heard when the wind blows strongly against vinyl-clad homes. This is due to the way vinyl must be installed leaving the width of a dime between the nail head and the vinyl panel to allow for movement.

The other "ugly" reality that homeowners sometimes forget to consider is that the color of the vinyl will be the color of their home forever -- or until they decide to reside it with something else. Yes, it could be painted, but then you lose the low maintenance quality that it provided in the first place. Vinyl siding can also be easily damaged either by windblown debris, lawnmower debris, ladders or anything else that is harder than the vinyl. Once damaged, the entire panel must be replaced and new replacement panels will not be an exact match since vinyl does tend to fade within five years or so.


from what I have read a good paint job last 10 - 15 years, vinyl siding lasts 15 - 20 years. they basically cost the same and coupled with all the cons of vinyl siding it really isn't any better to use vinyl siding than to paint your house.

Very well said.

Vinyl siding is a hideous perpetration upon society. All siding of this type looks very irregular and cheap once a little age sets in. Buckling is one of the main drawbacks.

We have a neighbor here in South Tulsa who put it on her house. Its been two years now and it looks terrible. One of the things the sales people will always say it that it is the product they are selling is new and improved. Don't you believe that.

[TheArtist]

Yea, I am currently looking for someone to remove the siding from my house. It has gotten brittle in places and the hail pocked holes in it, It has warped in some places where the sun is the harshest. The white colors show dirt and dust build up easily and is not as easy to clean as you would think. And you cant change the color like you could otherwise. I have no idea what its going to cost to remove the stuff. I would much rather paint.

[PonderInc]

Anyone know anything about that new ceramic paint that's supposed to be god's gift to homeowners?  Suppposed to last forever, etc, etc.  Might be a better option, if you are confident in your color choice.

(I would agree that vinyl siding just hides significant problems underneath.  Plus, every time you touch it, you go "eeww.")

[Cirage]

My neighbor is planning on adding an enamel coat  to his siding in the next couple months.  It's an intriguing idea but I'm letting him play the guinea pig.  If it happens in the near future, I'll let you know how it turns out..
Something that permanent is a little unsettling to me. Maybe I'm just worried about possible "enamel abatement" in my future.