EMSA Opt-Out "Open Season"

[Wilbur]

Back on topic.....

After opting out last year, I put it on my calendar for the next two years to remember to opt out each year and I have it marked for May 15.  I'll start looking for the forms then.

[RecycleMichael]

Gee Bear...more insults to public safety personnel...

You make up a story implying that EMSA killed a police officer, call ambulance drivers "homeless", and say firemen are lying on their timesheets and throwing frat parties at the station.

No proof.

Instead of the fairy tale of "The Three Bears", it is three stories made up by one bear.

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by RecycleMichael

Gee Bear...more insults to public safety personnel...

You make up a story implying that EMSA killed a police officer, call ambulance drivers "homeless", and say firemen are lying on their timesheets and throwing frat parties at the station.

No proof.

Instead of the fairy tale of "The Three Bears", it is three stories made up by one bear.

Au Contraire, Monsieur Le Bete de la MET.

Mr. David Moss was not a policeman.

He was Tulsa County District Attorney.

Go ask his wife what killed him:  

The Heart Attack, or the glacial response time of the ambulance.

EMSA personal are "homeless", i.e. lack a proper roof over their head.

EMSA could easily stage from fire stations.  To "stage" is to provision and then deploy for an operation, and then to rest and recover between deployments back at base.

They have no base.

Both organizations have a strong, mutual loathing for each other.  

Sound familiar?  They don't play well together.

When the EMSA contract was last up for renewal, the Fire Department again tried to take them over.

Remember?

Animal House Antics at our local fire stations?

Oh, at least I seem to recall under the sterling tenure of former Fire Chief Tom Baker that a Fire Captain, two lieutenants, and one lowly fireman were bringing ladies besides their wives into the Fire Station for some late night, horizontal counseling.

The only one punished was the lowliest fireman.  The others got to retire.

They should have been fired.

That certainly SOUNDS like an Animal House FRAT HOUSE to me.

Isolated incident.

Maybe.

Maybe not.

[RecycleMichael]

Your evidence is that once a fire station had some guys who had sex on the job. Now you feel compelled to lump all of them together.

Your evidence that EMSA and TFD don't like each other is that the ambulances don't park at stations? Do you think the stations were designed to house additional vehicles?

You constantly try to paint the worse of everybody and say that everything is crooked.

Your conspiracies theories and outright falsehoods have been proven wrong again and again, yet you just come back with more. Did you ever think about changing strategies and telling the truth?

As you can tell, I think that the fire department does a good job. I worked with over a dozen of them this past weekend and they work hard. I also was happy that EMSA volunteered to help with our collection event. They have always been good to work with.

Maybe you just don't like people in uniforms. It probably relates to Smokey the Bear wearing one and getting all the good press. The rest of you bears are probably just jealous.

[rwarn17588]

Same old crap, different day.

It's time to change F.B.'s handle to Boring Bear.

Or Banal Bear.

Or Blah Bear.

You're not as boring as buzz words' posts, but you're close.

If you can't bring something new to the table except for minor rewordings of the same tired diatribes, then don't post.

You're not going to persuade anyone if you're putting them to sleep.

[Wilbur]

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

quote:Originally posted by RecycleMichael

Gee Bear...more insults to public safety personnel...

You make up a story implying that EMSA killed a police officer, call ambulance drivers "homeless", and say firemen are lying on their timesheets and throwing frat parties at the station.

No proof.

Instead of the fairy tale of "The Three Bears", it is three stories made up by one bear.

Au Contraire, Monsieur Le Bete de la MET.

Mr. David Moss was not a policeman.

He was Tulsa County District Attorney.

Go ask his wife what killed him:  

The Heart Attack, or the glacial response time of the ambulance.

EMSA personal are "homeless", i.e. lack a proper roof over their head.

EMSA could easily stage from fire stations.  To "stage" is to provision and then deploy for an operation, and then to rest and recover between deployments back at base.

They have no base.

Both organizations have a strong, mutual loathing for each other.  

Sound familiar?  They don't play well together.

When the EMSA contract was last up for renewal, the Fire Department again tried to take them over.

Remember?

Animal House Antics at our local fire stations?

Oh, at least I seem to recall under the sterling tenure of former Fire Chief Tom Baker that a Fire Captain, two lieutenants, and one lowly fireman were bringing ladies besides their wives into the Fire Station for some late night, horizontal counseling.

The only one punished was the lowliest fireman.  The others got to retire.

They should have been fired.

That certainly SOUNDS like an Animal House FRAT HOUSE to me.

Isolated incident.

Maybe.

Maybe not.

David Moss died of a heart attack.  And he was considered, like all District Attorney's, to be the area's Chief Law Enforcement Officer.  All DAs are considered law enforcement officers.

EMSA constantly changes the position of their ambulances based on where their other ambulances are.  It's almost like playing zone defense.  Housing in a firehouse someplace would not change the constant re-locating so ambulances are in the best possible location to handle the next emergency.  EMSA folks don't get to go in and tuck themselves in at night to sleep.  There aren't enough crews on duty to allow that.  So, why they would want to house at a fire station is beyond me.  What are you saying is the benefit?

EMSA has a home base at 1400 N. Lansing.

And where the hatred comes from between the two groups, I have no idea.  Seeing them work together every day certainly counters that statement.

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by RecycleMichael

Your evidence is that once a fire station had some guys who had sex on the job. Now you feel compelled to lump all of them together.

Your evidence that EMSA and TFD don't like each other is that the ambulances don't park at stations? Do you think the stations were designed to house additional vehicles?

You constantly try to paint the worse of everybody and say that everything is crooked.

Your conspiracies theories and outright falsehoods have been proven wrong again and again, yet you just come back with more. Did you ever think about changing strategies and telling the truth?

As you can tell, I think that the fire department does a good job. I worked with over a dozen of them this past weekend and they work hard. I also was happy that EMSA volunteered to help with our collection event. They have always been good to work with.

Maybe you just don't like people in uniforms. It probably relates to Smokey the Bear wearing one and getting all the good press. The rest of you bears are probably just jealous.

Were these Fire Department and EMSA personnel actually working on the City timeclock?

Then, of course they were happy to loaf with you while on the payroll.

Silly boy.

You'll never see a EMSA ambulance parked at a Firehouse because they see themselves as COMPETITORS.

As to Fire House = Animal House antics, TFD doesn't want any non-Guild personnel observing their actual "work" place.

Oh, and WHAT conspiracy theory were you referring to?

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by rwarn17588

Same old crap, different day.

It's time to change F.B.'s handle to Boring Bear.

Or Banal Bear.

Or Blah Bear.

You're not as boring as buzz words' posts, but you're close.

If you can't bring something new to the table except for minor rewordings of the same tired diatribes, then don't post.

You're not going to persuade anyone if you're putting them to sleep.

Then why are you wasting your time unloading on my post?


[}:)]

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by Wilbur

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

quote:Originally posted by RecycleMichael

Gee Bear...more insults to public safety personnel...

You make up a story implying that EMSA killed a police officer, call ambulance drivers "homeless", and say firemen are lying on their timesheets and throwing frat parties at the station.

No proof.

Instead of the fairy tale of "The Three Bears", it is three stories made up by one bear.

Au Contraire, Monsieur Le Bete de la MET.

Mr. David Moss was not a policeman.

He was Tulsa County District Attorney.

Go ask his wife what killed him:  

The Heart Attack, or the glacial response time of the ambulance.

EMSA personal are "homeless", i.e. lack a proper roof over their head.

EMSA could easily stage from fire stations.  To "stage" is to provision and then deploy for an operation, and then to rest and recover between deployments back at base.

They have no base.

Both organizations have a strong, mutual loathing for each other.  

Sound familiar?  They don't play well together.

When the EMSA contract was last up for renewal, the Fire Department again tried to take them over.

Remember?

Animal House Antics at our local fire stations?

Oh, at least I seem to recall under the sterling tenure of former Fire Chief Tom Baker that a Fire Captain, two lieutenants, and one lowly fireman were bringing ladies besides their wives into the Fire Station for some late night, horizontal counseling.

The only one punished was the lowliest fireman.  The others got to retire.

They should have been fired.

That certainly SOUNDS like an Animal House FRAT HOUSE to me.

Isolated incident.

Maybe.

Maybe not.

David Moss died of a heart attack.  And he was considered, like all District Attorney's, to be the area's Chief Law Enforcement Officer.  All DAs are considered law enforcement officers.

EMSA constantly changes the position of their ambulances based on where their other ambulances are.  It's almost like playing zone defense.  Housing in a firehouse someplace would not change the constant re-locating so ambulances are in the best possible location to handle the next emergency.  EMSA folks don't get to go in and tuck themselves in at night to sleep.  There aren't enough crews on duty to allow that.  So, why they would want to house at a fire station is beyond me.  What are you saying is the benefit?

EMSA has a home base at 1400 N. Lansing.

And where the hatred comes from between the two groups, I have no idea.  Seeing them work together every day certainly counters that statement.

Despite RecycleMichael calling Mr. Moss a policeman, he wasn't.

He was an elected official.  Tulsa County DISTRICT ATTORNEY.

Our legal system has a division of duties between the Prosecutors, and the Police.

The police investigate reports of crimes, and make arrests.

The prosecutors decide whether they think a crime appeared, and if so, to prosecute the offender.

[Mike G]

Here Friendly Bear, let me correct a few of your misconceptions.

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

Poor Mr. Moss keeled over with a heart attack one warm, summer day mowing his lawn.

His wife called 911, and mistakenly asked for an AMBULANCE.

They lived right behind a Fire Station.

He died before the ambulance got there...

Sometimes people die and you can't fix dead.

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

EMSA is merely a Transport Unit.

NOT a First Responder. They could NEVER hack it.

Hauling either Tulsa FD stabilized patients, or future organ transplant donors to local hospitals.

Once the EMT situtation has been stabilized by Tulsa FD, then EMSA transports.

That's the standard protocol.

Actually it's not the standard, or any, protocol at all.  TFD does first respond, and EMSA does transport.  Both agencies work under the SAME protocols from the SAME medical director.  As far as TFD stabilizing a patient... explain how a BLS fire company is going to stabilize a patient with exacerbated COPD? What about the calls that TFD never responds to or is canceled by EMSA?

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

As a Tulsa taxpayer, the part I enjoy paying for the most, besides the monthly $3.64 EMSA Tax, is to see EMSA ambulances parked behind Quik-Trips or in shopping center parking lots, with the ENGINES and heaters/Air conditioners RUNNING continuously because EMSA personnel are basically HOMELESS.

Observed one in INACTION a few days ago. The driver was playing with his computer.

His EMT assistant (a female) was ASLEEP in the passenger seat.

How does that justify making them homeless?  It's more like a mobile office.  And did you actually see that he was 'playing' on his tablet, or was he finishing a PCR since all PCR's are done on tablets?

Oh, and if he was in the driver's seat, odds are he was the EMT and his paramedic PARTNER was probably sleeping because when you work 12 hour shifts (assuming you get off on time), four days a week (heaven forbid you have to pick up overtime shifts because you have bills that are due and you could work many other places and make get paid what you're worth, but you choose to do this job because there are people out there that need help and you are one of the few that have offered themselves to help), it wears you out.  How many hours a week do you work?  Better yet, how many hours a day?  I know I work 13-14... assuming I get off on time.  Better run home because I have to be back to work in a few hours.

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

Mild, 70 degree day, but All windows were UP, and the engine and air conditioner were running continuously.

Sure, why not? We're paying for their fuel with our Sales Tax dollars.

Yeah... when was the last time you tried to do anything with a diesel engine in your ears?  Oh, and when your loved one has a heart attack behind the BLS fire station, I'll be sure to let you know the reason the ambulance was 10 minutes later than normal is the one down the road shut their truck off to save fuel and couldn't get it started again.

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

From a policy viewpoint, if EMSA didn't view TFD as a COMPETITOR, then the ambulances could actually park and stage out of our Fire Stations.
...
EMSA could easily stage from fire stations. To "stage" is to provision and then deploy for an operation, and then to rest and recover between deployments back at base.

Well that wouldn't work due to call volume and trying to manage the system for equal coverage.  That and EMSA and TFD are completely separate services.

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

Sorry, we all get to continue paying for two duplicative EMT services:

It's the TULSA PREMIUM.

Funny, since just about all other major cities do it just the same way.  And it's not a duplicative service, each serves it's own function.  Check out a cardiac arrest call in Owasso or Broken Arrow.  I bet you see a fire truck there with the ambulance.

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

Were these Fire Department and EMSA personnel actually working on the City timeclock?

Then, of course they were happy to loaf with you while on the payroll.

Considering EMSA isn't on the city's time clock, that doesn't work either.  What about all of the  holidays like fourth of July or New Years, or weddings or barbeques, when EMSA and TFD employees enjoy each other company.  Oh wait, you wouldn't know.

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by Mike G

Here Friendly Bear, let me correct a few of your misconceptions.

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

Poor Mr. Moss keeled over with a heart attack one warm, summer day mowing his lawn.

His wife called 911, and mistakenly asked for an AMBULANCE.

They lived right behind a Fire Station.

He died before the ambulance got there...

Sometimes people die and you can't fix dead.

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

EMSA is merely a Transport Unit.

NOT a First Responder. They could NEVER hack it.

Hauling either Tulsa FD stabilized patients, or future organ transplant donors to local hospitals.

Once the EMT situtation has been stabilized by Tulsa FD, then EMSA transports.

That's the standard protocol.

Actually it's not the standard, or any, protocol at all.  TFD does first respond, and EMSA does transport.  Both agencies work under the SAME protocols from the SAME medical director.  As far as TFD stabilizing a patient... explain how a BLS fire company is going to stabilize a patient with exacerbated COPD? What about the calls that TFD never responds to or is canceled by EMSA?

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

As a Tulsa taxpayer, the part I enjoy paying for the most, besides the monthly $3.64 EMSA Tax, is to see EMSA ambulances parked behind Quik-Trips or in shopping center parking lots, with the ENGINES and heaters/Air conditioners RUNNING continuously because EMSA personnel are basically HOMELESS.

Observed one in INACTION a few days ago. The driver was playing with his computer.

His EMT assistant (a female) was ASLEEP in the passenger seat.

How does that justify making them homeless?  It's more like a mobile office.  And did you actually see that he was 'playing' on his tablet, or was he finishing a PCR since all PCR's are done on tablets?

Oh, and if he was in the driver's seat, odds are he was the EMT and his paramedic PARTNER was probably sleeping because when you work 12 hour shifts (assuming you get off on time), four days a week (heaven forbid you have to pick up overtime shifts because you have bills that are due and you could work many other places and make get paid what you're worth, but you choose to do this job because there are people out there that need help and you are one of the few that have offered themselves to help), it wears you out.  How many hours a week do you work?  Better yet, how many hours a day?  I know I work 13-14... assuming I get off on time.  Better run home because I have to be back to work in a few hours.

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

Mild, 70 degree day, but All windows were UP, and the engine and air conditioner were running continuously.

Sure, why not? We're paying for their fuel with our Sales Tax dollars.

Yeah... when was the last time you tried to do anything with a diesel engine in your ears?  Oh, and when your loved one has a heart attack behind the BLS fire station, I'll be sure to let you know the reason the ambulance was 10 minutes later than normal is the one down the road shut their truck off to save fuel and couldn't get it started again.

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

From a policy viewpoint, if EMSA didn't view TFD as a COMPETITOR, then the ambulances could actually park and stage out of our Fire Stations.
...
EMSA could easily stage from fire stations. To "stage" is to provision and then deploy for an operation, and then to rest and recover between deployments back at base.

Well that wouldn't work due to call volume and trying to manage the system for equal coverage.  That and EMSA and TFD are completely separate services.

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

Sorry, we all get to continue paying for two duplicative EMT services:

It's the TULSA PREMIUM.

Funny, since just about all other major cities do it just the same way.  And it's not a duplicative service, each serves it's own function.  Check out a cardiac arrest call in Owasso or Broken Arrow.  I bet you see a fire truck there with the ambulance.

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

Were these Fire Department and EMSA personnel actually working on the City timeclock?

Then, of course they were happy to loaf with you while on the payroll.

Considering EMSA isn't on the city's time clock, that doesn't work either.  What about all of the  holidays like fourth of July or New Years, or weddings or barbeques, when EMSA and TFD employees enjoy each other company.  Oh wait, you wouldn't know.

You're working too hard.

You can take the rest of the week off.

Oh, and EMSA is running their engines 24 x 7 x 365, just so they'll "start" in an emergency.

Sounds like an extremely expensive solution to a non-problem.

Really, I LIKE buying railroad cars full of diesel fuel just so EMSA can sit around Quick-Tripp and idle their engines to stay cool or stay warm.

Really I do.

[cannon_fodder]

Mike G declared open season on bears.

[RecycleMichael]

Be careful Mike G.

Friendly Bear is jealous of public servants.

He thinks his porridge is too cold and yours is just right.

[waterboy]

FB he nailed you fair and square. One wonders if you've ever done that kind of work before. Most diesel rigs leave their engines running. Yes they can be hard to start but they are quite efficient at idle and it keeps the electrics operating. Stuff like laptops, a/c, medical equipment etc. Since the engines are noisy most times you keep the windows closed and the air running but they are tough durable machines.

Another thing. I watch these guys fight through inattentive, selfish, stupid drivers daily just so they can get in position to save someones life. They have medical training that goes on forever, are exposed to scads of dangerous diseases and vermin including those with more guns than brains. And their starting pay for this? I'm told its $8.60 per hour. Give them some respect please.

[rwarn17588]

My dad once was a long-haul truck driver. He told me the reason those diesel engines idled at truck stops when drivers went in to eat was because you'd waste more fuel shutting the engine down and restarting it again.

And, yes, keeping the electronics running in an ambulance is pretty doggone important, too.