Murder Rate Down by 50% Since HB1804

[TulsaSooner]

Since HB 1804 passed, the inside of my house has had drywall work completed AND it has been painted, including an accent wall.

[we vs us]

quote:Originally posted by TulsaSooner

Since HB 1804 passed, the inside of my house has had drywall work completed AND it has been painted, including an accent wall.

Huzzah! A triumph over illegal immigration!

[TURobY]

Since HB1804, the number of trees on my property have increased by 50%. Coincidence?

[we vs us]

quote:Originally posted by TURobY

Since HB1804, the number of trees on my property have increased by 50%. Coincidence?

Out with illegals, up with trees?

[custosnox]

Okay, I'll come and ovver a little support to ya, though it's not much.  While I didn't follow a lot of the info on the homocides last year, what I did see, there was a significant number in area's where there are a large amount illegle's.  Also, many of the parties involved (rather victim or assailent) were hispanic.  But, these are just casual observations, and are not meant in any way to construe that 1804 has been the cause of a short term decrease in homicides.  If it has, IMHO it would be far less then a 50% effect on it.

[hoodlum]

there were 21 fewer homicides in 2004 (49) as opposed to 2003 (70). what happened that year? nothing, just a fluctuation.

I think this is just a natural fluctuation in the homicide rate no more no less, and has nothing to do with HB1804 at all.

[Hometown]

I've seen a couple of news reports this year about Tulsa Police initiating a new "antigang" program.  They also had a program late last year targeting career criminals.  Don't remember a lot of details about either program, except that it looked like some civil liberties were being trampled on.

[sgrizzle]

I accredit it to the increase in bike patrols:



That and maybe a change in police chief...

[patric]

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

Actually I do think there are some correlations with temperature and crime.

I dont know about temperature, but there has historically been a correlation between crime and the amount of daylight hours.
Those numbers tend to spike when the moon is full -- not necessarily because of any tidal influence on our body water but simply because there has been more light available during full moons to see.

I should add that these day/night distinctions  become less significant in modern population areas that experience 24/7 daytime due to artificial lighting...
Just thought Id throw that into the mix.

[hoodlum]

The FBI Uniform Crime Report states, "Some factors which are known to affect the volume and type of crime occurring from
place to place are...climate" (FBI Uniform Crime Reports) "Heat-induced discomfort makes people cranky," explains Anderson, a noted scholar, who has pored over 48 years of climate records from 50 U.S. cities. Not surprisingly he has found that the hottest summers bring in the most murders ("Frayed" 2001). And in yet another study done in Finland, "The peak in homicide rates occured commonly during the summer and the troughs during the winter" ("Frayed" 2001).


also check out this

[Double A]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

Since 1804 foreclosures are also way up in Tulsa.

More business on the North Side and the East have closed.

Home starts have dropped dramatically.

There is at least as much correlation between those as with the murder rate.  But it is still an interesting point.  I do not know if there is any causal effect on any of those - what % of murders involved illegals?  

I suspect some did, but generally see petty crimes and spousal abuse with more Hispanic names than murder, robbery, etc.  The foreclosures could be either rental properties or houses that Hispanics walked out on.  The business going under are often ones owned by or catering too Hispanics.  And of course home starts could either be due to a lack of labor, a glut of houses recently, or a general downturn.

You conveniently ignore the role of the sub-prime meltdown, higher gas/energy prices and the fact we are in a recession in your arguments. These factors have more acute impacts on lower income areas/businesses that are operating on the margins. Considering that illegal aliens send vast amounts of money out of the country in the form of remittances, instead of putting it back into the community, it's highly questionable whether they really have as much impact on the local economy as you suggest to begin with.

[custosnox]

quote:Originally posted by patric

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

Actually I do think there are some correlations with temperature and crime.

I dont know about temperature, but there has historically been a correlation between crime and the amount of daylight hours.
Those numbers tend to spike when the moon is full -- not necessarily because of any tidal influence on our body water but simply because there has been more light available during full moons to see.

I should add that these day/night distinctions  become less significant in modern population areas that experience 24/7 daytime due to artificial lighting...
Just thought Id throw that into the mix.

I don't know about the studies, but I can say from experiance that when the moon is full, the criminals come out.  I used to be a bounty hunter, and after figuring out that it took hours to book someone in due to the large amounts of arrests, I stopped hunting on nights of the full moon.  I'm sure anyone that has worked at the DOC can attest to this as well.

[RecycleMichael]

quote:Originally posted by Double A
Considering that illegal aliens send vast amounts of money out of the country in the form of remittances, instead of putting it back into the community, it's highly questionable whether they really have as much impact on the local economy as you suggest to begin with.

I have heard that before. I wonder if there is any verification about illegal alien income and how much of it is sent out of the country.

[cannon_fodder]

Double A, that was kind of the point...  the whole causation correlation thing was lacking.

[Double A]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

Double A, that was kind of the point...  the whole causation correlation thing was lacking.

Agreed. I think it's ridiculous to make the claim that homicide rates have been reduced due to 1804. I would like to see some numbers on the rates of accidents involving illegal alien uninsured drivers, which was a huge problem before 1804 passed.