We Finance Polygamist Sect

[FOTD]

Ya gotta love faith-based initiatives.

Polygamist sect gets millions from U.S. government

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/33510.html

"There's a lot of bad **** in there," said a high-ranking official with the federal Justice Department who did not want to be identified because of the sensitivity of the case. On Tuesday, the Justice Department executed a sealed FBI search warrant at the ranch."

[shadows]

The LDS were taking care of their children.   Tulsa, I believe is in the number one state with children born out of wedlock.  Many of the mothers are barely in their teens.  We spend millions supporting the children and looking for the persons who fathered them to help support them.  

Was not the 12 tribes of Israel produced by one man impregnating four women three times?  

The government did serve a sealed search warrant not like the one served at Waco.  

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by shadows

The LDS were taking care of their children.   Tulsa, I believe is in the number one state with children born out of wedlock.  Many of the mothers are barely in their teens.  We spend millions supporting the children and looking for the persons who fathered them to help support them.  

Was not the 12 tribes of Israel produced by one man impregnating four women three times?  

The government did serve a sealed search warrant not like the one served at Waco.  

Your remarks are ironic. Do you know how the members were able to tithe to the sect? A former member who has been interviewed on several news shows reveals that after these women gave birth they applied for and received WELFARE PAYMENTS! The fathers refused to admit paternity, could not legally marry multiple wives and refused to support their children. They systematically milked the government of our tax dollars. Was that anywhere in the Bible? Republicans have been elected for decades on the mere suggestion that such was happening with our tax dollars by minorities and illegals. Where is your outrage!

[cannon_fodder]

Births by State for Unmarried Women Page 61:
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr55/nvsr55_01.pdf
3 meg file, numbers as of Sept. 2006.

I couldn't get it to paste worth a damn but here are some select numbers:

National Average 35.8% of births of wedlock (1.4million.  24.5% whites, 69.3% blacks,  46.4% Hispanics)

US Territories are way higher.  
US Virgin Islands - 68.5%
Puerto Rico - 56.7%
Guam - 56.7% (etc...)

Highest States:
DC (55%)
Louisiana (49.1%)
New Mexico (48.8%)
Mississippi (48.3%)
Delaware (42.3%)
Arizona (42.2%)
South Car. (41.9%)
Florida (41.4%)

All others < 40%

Lowest:
Utah (17%)
Idaho (22%)
New Hampshire (26.4%)
Mass (28.5%)
Minnesota (29%)
North Dakota (29.9%)
Conn (30.1%)
New Jersey (30.1%)
Nebraska (30.2%)
Virginia (31%)


Oklahoma clocks in slightly above the national average at 38.4%.  31.3% for whites (national average +7), 71.7% for blacks (+2.4), and 46.1% for Hispanics (-.3).  We are right next to Ohio, Indiana, Arkansas, Tennessee...

So the claim that Oklahoma is among the leaders in unwed births is absolutely false.    And by and large the LDS fosters the most children born IN wedlock (judging by Idaho & Utah).  Not that I hold that stats as all important or even necessarily indicative of being born and cared for by 2 parents.

[swake]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

Births by State for Unmarried Women Page 61:
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr55/nvsr55_01.pdf
3 meg file, numbers as of Sept. 2006.

I couldn't get it to paste worth a damn but here are some select numbers:

National Average 35.8% of births of wedlock (1.4million.  24.5% whites, 69.3% blacks,  46.4% Hispanics)

US Territories are way higher.  
US Virgin Islands - 68.5%
Puerto Rico - 56.7%
Guam - 56.7% (etc...)

Highest States:
DC (55%)
Louisiana (49.1%)
New Mexico (48.8%)
Mississippi (48.3%)
Delaware (42.3%)
Arizona (42.2%)
South Car. (41.9%)
Florida (41.4%)

All others < 40%

Lowest:
Utah (17%)
Idaho (22%)
New Hampshire (26.4%)
Mass (28.5%)
Minnesota (29%)
North Dakota (29.9%)
Conn (30.1%)
New Jersey (30.1%)
Nebraska (30.2%)
Virginia (31%)


Oklahoma clocks in slightly above the national average at 38.4%.  31.3% for whites (national average +7), 71.7% for blacks (+2.4), and 46.1% for Hispanics (-.3).  We are right next to Ohio, Indiana, Arkansas, Tennessee...

So the claim that Oklahoma is among the leaders in unwed births is absolutely false.    And by and large the LDS fosters the most children born IN wedlock (judging by Idaho & Utah).  Not that I hold that stats as all important or even necessarily indicative of being born and cared for by 2 parents.

It's not unwed mothers that I recall that we are a leader in, it's teen mothers (shotgun weddings anyone?)

http://www.statehealthfacts.org/comparemaptable.jsp?ind=37&cat=2

And we are the 7th worst state in the nation for teen births. 55.6 births per year (as of 2004), per 1000 girls aged 15-19 years old. That compares to a national average of 41.1

We are 35.3% higher than the national average. That means that for every 1,000 girls in Oklahoma that reach 20 years old there will be approximately 278 children. Obviously some teens will have more than one child during the teen years but this would lead you to believe that something like 25% of our teen girls don't reach 20 years old without a child. That's dismal, the fact that they are likely to end up in a rushed, bad marriage to go with the child really doesn't help much.

Sex education and birth control for teens is bad..mmmkay...

[cannon_fodder]

You are correct Swake and I considered adding something to that effect to me post - but it grew long enough as it is.  But so long as the wedding is thrown together in a hurry and the child is born into a family of God, all the socio-economic problems associated with shotgun weddings and early pregnancy goes away!

My son is 8.  My wife and I have been together for 12 years.  But only married for 6 (or is it 7?  Palm Pilot, where are you!).    To fix that problem we just refuse to allow our son to go to math class... figure it works out the same for kids that are 8 who's parents have been married for 8.5 years.  [}:)]

[rwarn17588]

All these stats indicated that even though Oklahoma is about average in terms of children being born out of wedlock, there are more babies by teen mothers.

All this seems to indicate is that women are getting married earlier in Oklahoma. Big deal.

Forty years ago, teens getting married was commonplace. My mom got married at 18 (willfully) and had me just before she turned 20.

[Kashmir]

Well, Cannon, I would rather have some funky math compared to having a baby veryverysoon (within a year) of wedding...the snorts and eyerolls and snicker-snickers from that are pretty embarrassing too. "They wasted no time" "Honeymoon baby" etc...  
[:I]
Some relatives were snotty, even though I was graduated from OU, worked as a teacher, owned a home, etc.
Then it was 2 kids in 3 years.  

[]

Can I mention to the Big Love fans out there, how much is this like the season finale?  Holy Crap.  And those pictures of the women are right out of the Juniper Creek "compound"

[shadows]

Waterboy quoted;
Was that anywhere in the Bible?
--------------------------------

Check the books of Moses on tithing.

Ophra had a family on her program last week (man and his wives) and the interviewer, which did a good job, as the program ended she sat down in one of the chairs as one of the family.

Regardless of having been associated with persons of the church I was informed that they took care of their own welfare according to the laws of Moses.

I realize the administration frowns on posting religion items but the book of "Ruth" deals with this subject among many other places as well as the founding fathers intent in the constitution.

If prostitution is legal in NV then will it not be decided in the court that no illegal acts were preformed in the compound under federal codes?      

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by shadows

Waterboy quoted;
Was that anywhere in the Bible?
--------------------------------

Check the books of Moses on tithing.

Ophra had a family on her program last week (man and his wives) and the interviewer, which did a good job, as the program ended she sat down in one of the chairs as one of the family.

Regardless of having been associated with persons of the church I was informed that they took care of their own welfare according to the laws of Moses.

I realize the administration frowns on posting religion items but the book of "Ruth" deals with this subject among many other places as well as the founding fathers intent in the constitution.

If prostitution is legal in NV then will it not be decided in the court that no illegal acts were preformed in the compound under federal codes?      

Maybe Cannon can decipher your last sentence or how it relates. But as far as the rest just answer me. Where in the bible does it condone welfare fraud? Like all good conservatives know, "HAVING BABIES TO GET WELFARE CHECKS!" These people are stealing from you. They are modern day commune hippies run by pedophiles and the best you can do is the book of Ruth?

[Conan71]

How does this figure in to Republicans or conservatives?  Just because Aox posted it?

[cannon_fodder]

Waterboy, I got my associates in Shadow Speak some time ago and have working towards a full B.S. degree in the field.  Let me try:

1) I don't think he understands yet that they took government money.  He is asserting that they handled their own "welfare" as a community and took care of each other.   So, instead of polygamists claiming welfare benefits in spite of a known father; he sees the government stepping into a religious community because they were handling a charitable monopoly that is supposed to be held by the government - internally.

Don't forget, just because you say something very clearly like "they were committing welfare fraud," it does not mean he will pick up on it.

2) Per his last line... I only have an associates but let me try:

My first assumption is that he is mistakenly assuming the sect was in Nevada as such sect historically have been.  From there, I'm guessing he believes if it is legal to pay for sex in Nevada then these "extra wives" could be viewed as prostitutes - the men pay for their housing and food in exchange for sex.  Thus avoiding polygamy charges.

This, of course, ignores the fact that it was in Texas, the welfare fraud, and that they are not charged with polygamy (nor is it a crime.  The crime would be "bigamy" which is a fraudulent act upon the state - a LEGAL marriage to multiple women which entails lying to get the additional marriage licenses.  But again, when deciphering Shadow Speak don't let the fact influence your interpretation.

ALTERNATELY, it could be viewed as saying "if the federal government will tolerate prostitution in Nevada then polygamy in Texas should be just s good."  This has the same basic flaws as above, but is my second best interpretation.

Hope this helps the discussion.

[waterboy]

[]thanks. How's the pay for that line of work?

Conan, anytime "faith based" initiatives or Welfare Queens are referred to, doesn't that automatically default to the republican party? Sort of like "jack boot" and "conservative conspiracy" default to Democrats and liberals?[]

[cannon_fodder]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

[]thanks. How's the pay for that line of work?

You do it for the love of the art, not the money.

[Conan71]

As usual, Shadows comments even make more sense when run through Gizoogle:

quote:

Waterboy quoted;
Was T-H-to-tha-izzat anywhere in tha Bible?
--------------------------------

Check tha books of Moses on tith'n.

Ophra had a family on her program last week (mizzay n his wives) n tha n**ga which did a good job, as tha program ended she sat down in one of tha chairs as one of tha family.

Regardless of straight trippin' bizzy associated wit persons of tha church I was informed tizzy they took care of they own welfare ho-slappin' ta tha laws of Moses . Bow wow wow yippee yo yipee yay.

I realize tha adminizzle frowns on hatin' religion items but tha book of #65533;Ruth#65533; deals wit this subject among many gangsta places as well as tha blingin' fatha intent in tha constitizzles doggystyle.

If prostitizzle is legal in NV then W-to-tha-izzill it not be decided in tha court that no illegal acts wizzy preformed in tha compound playa federal codes?