Homelessness Downtown

[TheArtist]

I would definitely say that most of the homeless here are the "chronically homeless".

Aside from the Y moving and not having a "living" component to it there is also the new campus that Catholic Charities is building which will be a great 1stop helping place for people who need help. Not sure what kind and extent of mental and drug abuse help they will have there though.

We are a small city and if you wanted to help the vast majority of chronically homeless here you could.

1. Get people to stop giving to panhandlers, that just allows the person to get by without  going to a shelter where they can get proper help or stay on their mental health/drug, nutritional, regimines.

2. Make sure the charity organizations are together on the same page and know which person needs what kind of help and keeps working on that persons particular needs.

I refuse to believe we are so stupid that we cant come up with a way to make something work. Imo it has to be that they don't really care enough as a priority to find a way to work together on a strong, complrehensive, solution.

[JoeMommaBlake]

I think it's important that we don't let our assumptions guide us.

I am assured by those that work every day serving Tulsa's homeless that our local statistics are hardly different from the national numbers. The estimate I've been given is 30%.

Furthermore, it's important to understand that the individual functions and objectives of the different agencies are different, though not necessarily in conflict with each other. The agencies are well aware of each other and of their services and frequently refer people to the appropriate place for the needed care.

The individuals that make an impression and that tend to be seen do tend to be chronic homeless. My wife works downtown and says that she sees the same few drunk homeless guys panhandling nearly every day. While those that are most visible may be the chronic homeless, they are not indicative of the population as a whole. One could come to the conclusion that the majority of Tulsans are obnoxious and pessimistic by reading the Tulsa World message boards. The reality, as we know, is that those few are poor representatives of our population as a whole. It is understandable then, that people make assumptions about the homeless population based on their experiences with the more noticeable members of the homeless population. It's easy, based on these limited experiences, to assume that the majority of Tulsa's homeless are suffering from mental illness or addiction. I truly believe that the obnoxious few are tainting the public perception of the entire homeless population and that we do a disservice to the entire group when we make assumptions. I don't want people accusing me of being obnoxious and negative based on their reading some uneducated rants in the Tulsa World comment sections.

I hope my analogy is not too trite. I've just read several barbs thrown at the World's comment section, so I thought it might hit home here.
[]

As I said before, an appropriate education about our homeless would be a great first step for the community to best discern how best to deal with the issue as it affects our city. I've spoken with Steve Whitaker from John 3:16 about hosting a forum for the downtown agencies to come and share with interested members of the community about what they do, about our homeless population, and about the most appropriate ways of dealing with homelessness in our city. I think I'm going to go ahead and put it together. Steve thinks it wont be a problem to get the other agencies to send representatives. I've also talked to most of the restaurant/bar owners in the Blue Dome District and they've been supportive and have said they'd attend. Perhaps I can get Jennifer Mansell, the downtown TPD rep to come as well.

What do you guys think? You think it's worth doing?

[jamesrage]

quote:Originally posted by JoeMommaBlake

My question to you all is this: The problem of homelessness is not lost on Tulsa, and its presence may in some ways affect the development of downtown. How do we best deal with issue?

My solutions will remove the bums from downtown and hopefully aid in them getting back on their feet.

1. Ban homeless shelters and facilities that aid them inside city limits.This will encourage those facilities to move outside city limits.

2. Ban panhandling or if we already have laws against pan handling then enforce them.I am not saying yank every guy off the street who is wearing shabby clothes,I am saying yank the obvious people like those holding the will work for food signs and those that come up asking people for a hand out.

3.Zone a small mostly unpopulated area outside of city limits for the homeless shelters and facilities that cater to the homeless.

4.Ban handing out money to panhandlers.If people didn't give to these people these people wouldn't panhandle.Plus there are facilities that aid that the homeless,there is absolutely no reason why you,me or anyone else should be giving these people drug,alcohol or cigarette money.Make charity groups and schools exempt from this so that they do not get their panties in a wad.

5.Set up employment agencies and organizations to help the homeless get back on their feet in those zoned homeless areas.

6.Take any homeless picked up for panhandling and drop them off in the zoned homeless area.

[waterboy]

JR, those are not new ideas. You could look up in history just how well they worked (or didn't) and what they accomplished.

We actually had a poor farm here in Tulsa during the depression. Homeless could work on the farm for food. Bates can probably detail its existence but my depression era parents told me it was on the East side of what is now LaFortune park. Would be interesting to see how it worked.

Much of the Southeast part of the US was settled by Britain's efforts to rid itself of criminals, beggars, political enemies and other unsightly people. They weren't real supportive of the British during the subsequent revolutionary war.

New Orleans tried to move prostitution and gambling to one area of town away from decent folk back in the twenties. It failed because they didn't treat the underlying problems, simply quarantined them. And I've heard stories of Olympic sites currently and in the past moving these unwanteds out of sight.

To me, its not a question of whether we can round up undesirables and successfully compound them in rural shelters. Its identifying and treating the underlying problems. In the end it is economics, education and inhumanity that cause these problems. We need to spend our efforts on finding effective treatments for alcoholism, drug addiction and mental disorders. Current treatments aren't very effective.

[cannon_fodder]

+1 James, on enforcing panhandling laws.  "Will work for food" really just means "give me money" along with needing "money for gas" and all the other excuses.  The guys with the signs should be the easiest to enforce.

[JoeMommaBlake]

If we worked as hard to get rid of real criminals as we do of the homeless, we'd be in great shape.

The difference is that people have dehumanized homeless people, so it doesn't at first seem as inhumane as it really is to talk about "rounding up" a group of people and "dumping" them somewhere out of sight. If any of us knew more homeless people (or even one) our ideas might change. It's really hard to suggest sending someone we actually know out to the country so that their homelessness doesn't make city people uncomfortable.

It's the type of thing that one might propose with stray dogs and it's sad.

[TheArtist]

quote:Originally posted by JoeMommaBlake

I think it's important that we don't let our assumptions guide us.

I am assured by those that work every day serving Tulsa's homeless that our local statistics are hardly different from the national numbers. The estimate I've been given is 30%.

Furthermore, it's important to understand that the individual functions and objectives of the different agencies are different, though not necessarily in conflict with each other. The agencies are well aware of each other and of their services and frequently refer people to the appropriate place for the needed care.

The individuals that make an impression and that tend to be seen do tend to be chronic homeless. My wife works downtown and says that she sees the same few drunk homeless guys panhandling nearly every day. While those that are most visible may be the chronic homeless, they are not indicative of the population as a whole. One could come to the conclusion that the majority of Tulsans are obnoxious and pessimistic by reading the Tulsa World message boards. The reality, as we know, is that those few are poor representatives of our population as a whole. It is understandable then, that people make assumptions about the homeless population based on their experiences with the more noticeable members of the homeless population. It's easy, based on these limited experiences, to assume that the majority of Tulsa's homeless are suffering from mental illness or addiction. I truly believe that the obnoxious few are tainting the public perception of the entire homeless population and that we do a disservice to the entire group when we make assumptions. I don't want people accusing me of being obnoxious and negative based on their reading some uneducated rants in the Tulsa World comment sections.

I hope my analogy is not too trite. I've just read several barbs thrown at the World's comment section, so I thought it might hit home here.
[]

As I said before, an appropriate education about our homeless would be a great first step for the community to best discern how best to deal with the issue as it affects our city. I've spoken with Steve Whitaker from John 3:16 about hosting a forum for the downtown agencies to come and share with interested members of the community about what they do, about our homeless population, and about the most appropriate ways of dealing with homelessness in our city. I think I'm going to go ahead and put it together. Steve thinks it wont be a problem to get the other agencies to send representatives. I've also talked to most of the restaurant/bar owners in the Blue Dome District and they've been supportive and have said they'd attend. Perhaps I can get Jennifer Mansell, the downtown TPD rep to come as well.

What do you guys think? You think it's worth doing?

Are you saying that about 30% of the homeless population at any time here in Tulsa could be classified as chronically homeless? Though not "most" as I probably wrongly said, that is a lot. I do agree that we could very well be prejudiced in our view of who the homeless are because of what we see. Likely those approximately 30% if thats true. But if the other 70% get back on their feet in short order, then the "helping system" is perhaps working fine for them. It that other 30%, that we see, where the system is failing. Those are the "bums" we talk about, not the people who have some problems then get back on their own feet.

It would be interesting to hear some different people talk on the subject though who are familiar with it.

[Hometown]

John 3:16 and Salvation Army, the Jail and Homeless Day Center are all within blocks of Brady Heights.  Homeless people sleep around the railroad that runs over Denver and under an underpass on Denver, both within sight of the Jail.  In the afternoon a large number of homeless people gather at another underpass near John 3:16.  There are homeless people passing from one agency to another in this neighborhood all day.  Everyday homeless people hang out inside the Central Library.

Brady Heights was Tulsa's first neighborhood and it is filled with wonderful historic homes but it is at a cross roads.  You could also say downtown is at a crossroads.

I vote for candidates that support homeless issues and I am not afraid of homeless people.  I know it could happen to any of us.  And I am eager for a solution to this problem that has existed since Reagan's presidency.

I live in North Tulsa and I am an advocate for North Tulsa, Brady Heights and Downtown and it is crucial that the City of Tulsa ask other areas of Tulsa to share the burden of helping the homeless or risk ruining North Tulsa and Brady Heights as it struggles to improve and risk damaging downtown's renaissance.

[PonderInc]

Not sure if someone has already mentioned this, but there's a group in Tulsa working on this very issue: Building Tulsa, Building Lives.  I know their approach will be based on the "housing first" philosophy, which has proven to be the cheapest and most successful approach to solving homelessness in other cities.  (The point is to put people in stable settings so they can receive needed services, medication and training.)

Check out the http://www.buildingtulsabuildinglives.com/ website for more information.

I highly encourage everyone who is concerned about homelessness to check out this organization.

[Wilbur]

quote:Originally posted by jamesrage

quote:Originally posted by JoeMommaBlake

My question to you all is this: The problem of homelessness is not lost on Tulsa, and its presence may in some ways affect the development of downtown. How do we best deal with issue?

My solutions will remove the bums from downtown and hopefully aid in them getting back on their feet.

1. Ban homeless shelters and facilities that aid them inside city limits.This will encourage those facilities to move outside city limits.

2. Ban panhandling or if we already have laws against pan handling then enforce them.I am not saying yank every guy off the street who is wearing shabby clothes,I am saying yank the obvious people like those holding the will work for food signs and those that come up asking people for a hand out.

3.Zone a small mostly unpopulated area outside of city limits for the homeless shelters and facilities that cater to the homeless.

4.Ban handing out money to panhandlers.If people didn't give to these people these people wouldn't panhandle.Plus there are facilities that aid that the homeless,there is absolutely no reason why you,me or anyone else should be giving these people drug,alcohol or cigarette money.Make charity groups and schools exempt from this so that they do not get their panties in a wad.

5.Set up employment agencies and organizations to help the homeless get back on their feet in those zoned homeless areas.

6.Take any homeless picked up for panhandling and drop them off in the zoned homeless area.

Gee.  I think five of the six go against the Constitution, but the other one (#5) is great!

[bbriscoe]

My solution is to eat at Utica Square, Woodland Hills area, or Jenks Riverwalk.  There aren't many "uncomfortable types" at the Jenks Riverwalk.  

Probably not the answer you were looking for, but that is how market forces respond to issues that the city is unrealistic about.

[Wrinkle]

I was thinking of an island in the river....

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by Wrinkle


I was thinking of an island in the river....

The Channels?

[FOTD]

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

quote:Originally posted by Wrinkle


I was thinking of an island in the river....

The Channels?

Alcatraz

[JoeMommaBlake]

I was thinking maybe people could start seeing homeless people as human beings and not as animals. Segregation based on income and housing situation is as wrong as segregation based on skin color and yet when the topic of homelessness is brought up, jokes fly around about "shipping" them off somewhere or quarantine or worse.

Imagine for a moment what it would feel like to be the recipient of that type of statement. I'm serious. Think about it for a minute. We're finally starting to get to a place in our society where people are learning that discrimination based on something as trivial as skin pigment is wrong. . . and even if they don't believe it, they have the social awareness to keep racial jokes off of message boards.

Perhaps the next step in our social evolution is to place less value on possessions so that we don't damn those that don't have as much. Are you really better than the homeless because of your job, house, car, etc? If you don't know them, how can you treat them like their situation is all their fault.

I'm a republican. I'm all for taking personal responsibility and for capitalism and for the idea than anybody can achieve anything in America. I also think America was made great by a president who thought slavery was wrong and who fought to rid our nation of the idea that some people are more valuable than others.

I would love to see people as passionate about ridding our city of crime as they are about ridding it of the homeless. I would love to see people as offended by segregation of the homeless as they are about racial or religious segregation. Other minority groups (be it race or sexual preference, heritage, or religion) in our country's history have at least had a voice. They've had a way to fight for their own rights and over time have torn down walls. The homeless don't have such a voice and are continuously spoken about as if they are worthless. This is the ultimate form of bullying and those who do it should be embarrassed. Who will be an advocate for the homeless? Who will help them to overcome?

I suppose John 3:16 will and I imagine they'd do a better job of it if people would let them expand the mission.