One week to Pennsylvania Primary

[cannon_fodder]

HT, as a point of order - Democrats have been in power about half of your adult life.  Accounting for a good chunk of the periods we were at war.  See what I'm getting at there?

And explain what markets advantages we have gained in Vietnam, Nicaragua, Haiti, Somalia, Bosnia, Afghanistan,  or Iraq.  I'd be interested to see what markets we opened up.  The Russians have more oil contracts in Iraq than we do (a war for oil that we allowed the Iraqis to open up for competitive bidding?).

I don't suffer from altruistic delusions when it comes to American power, but you vastly over simplified things.

[Hometown]

I meant to say "we have been at war all of my life" not "adult life."  We have been at war longer than I have been alive and I'm an old man.

And Democrats have been responsible for some of that.  But this time we are clear about ending this war.

I stand by my point that we say we are defending our soil when we really defending our markets.

The Republicans produced the best spokesman on this subject.  Eisenhower.  And for all practical purposes I think his warning about the undue power of the military industrial complex has come true.

Like we used to chant back during the day, "Hell no, we won't go."  And I'm tired of seeing working class kids sent off to be killed in someone else's war.

We Democrats are about to decide who is most capable of delivering a spanking to our war mongering opponents.  This mission makes our current squabble seem rather insignificant compared to the task ahead of us.

[iplaw]

quote:And I'm tired of seeing working class kids sent off to be killed in someone else's war.

Someone's been reading the Onion...

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by Hometown



We Democrats are about to decide who is most capable of delivering a spanking to our war mongering opponents.  This mission makes our current squabble seem rather insignificant compared to the task ahead of us.

You are supporting a candidate who was a part of that war-mongering machine.  You can't use the excuse she was duped by Bush.  She had a unique seat for all this:  a member of the Senate and former First Lady to a President who claimed there were un-accounted for WMD in Iraq the day he left office.

[cannon_fodder]

1. The Military Industrial Complex has been very well put down, repeatedly.  Any power that Haliburton has to start a war is offset but all the other industries that suffer because of it.

More steel is used in war time for government uses, more fuel, food is diverted, shipping is clogged, rubber, precious metals, explosives - all industrial goods become more expensive for everyone else.  The net result is a lower standard of living in the county as we have to absorb not only the direct cost of the war, but these ancillary costs.

War only makes even hypothetical sense when a country has excess capacity and an underutilized work force.  The U.S. has neither of those things.  Thus, predictably, our economy suffers from a prolonged war.

Surely there are parties who stand to profit and may push for war because of it, but Military contracts don't need actual wars to be awarded anyway.  So the long term losses outweigh any bennefit to the vast majority of companies.

2.

quote:Like we used to chant back during the day, "Hell no, we won't go." And I'm tired of seeing working class kids sent off to be killed in someone else's war.

I agree, this war should only be fought by the orphans of 9/11.  It's their war, not mine, so screw 'em.  "Listen kid, your dad got himself killed so here's a one way ticket to Afghanistan.  Grab a rifle and get on the bus."

But actually, your comment confuses me.  Volunteering for the military would be a really stupid idea if you don't want to go to war.  Working class, college graduate, wanting a leg up in the world, or even law school graduate - if you don't want to get shot at don't join the military.  Really simple.

3 friends from college went into officer training after graduation (1 Air Force, 2 Army).  One cousin is at West Point (his dad is an executive at Dell).  My bosses son is a SGT. in the Marines.  My cousin was a grunt in the Army until this year - his dad is a dentist.  

There's my short list of people I know in the military, officers, Jag, and grunts... none really from "working class families" as you would define it.  All volunteering to get shot at.  Don't be tired of seeing them go off to fight - they volunteered for this.  It's their war now.

[FOTD]

Where were all the Hillarybots today? Has reality started to sink in?

[RecycleMichael]

We had a meeting on how to save the democrat party. You weren't invited.

[we vs us]

quote:Originally posted by RecycleMichael

We had a meeting on how to save the democrat party. You weren't invited.

Zing!

[we vs us]

quote:Originally posted by RecycleMichael

We had a meeting on how to save the democrat party. You weren't invited.

Hey, wait . . . I wasn't invited, either!

[iplaw]

quote:Originally posted by RecycleMichael

We had a meeting on how to save the democrat party. You weren't invited.

What a bigot.

[mrhaskellok]

I have not read the entire thread, but I can say my position is simple (OIF vet)...I love my country more than almost anything else, BUT I wish for the days when our military joined for a cause. If man does not want to die for a cause, NO ONE should ever be able to force him to.  

Before everyone tells me what most abundantly obvious, we all sign up voluntarily, let me say two things.

Sort of,
1) Selective Service (bad, very bad)
2) National Guard...never should have been the second arm of the movement.

Most of us joined many years ago not realizing that the NG would become a CRITICAL part of this war.  

If people don't believe in the cause enough that they are not willing to die for it, I believe it is wrong to force him to die for it.

If there are those in the military that want to continue it, let them.  But it shouldn't be contingent on requiring thousands of others to die too.

Make no mistake, I am a huge patriot.  But once upon a time we fought wars with an army that chose to go to that war.  6-8 year contracts now pretty much guarantee that even in the NG, you are going to have to fight in war and in many cases twice.

Not making accusations to any one person on this board, but I do find it ironic how fast people are willing to advocate the war, but not join the battle, but then discredit veterans who have had to deal with the impact of battle when they come home and say I don't want to go back, I don't want to die for that place.

Just imagine more pain and heartache than you have ever experienced (VA said in an internal email they have had 12,000 reports of veterans committing suicide), then rethink your request to send someone through all of that, again often times two and three times.

All of war is not bloody and terrible and sure we must always consider all options.

In reality I am willing to fight these guys again if called to.  I just wish we could fight them on our soil.  Lets take that 1 trillion dollars and build a defense system no nation has ever seen.  Then, let them try it again.  I think that method will work better and save more money and lives.

I have more ideas on how to combat our enemy but I don't want to go on too long.

[guido911]

quote:Originally posted by iplaw

quote:Originally posted by RecycleMichael

We had a meeting on how to save the democrat party. You weren't invited.

What a bigot.

More like racist repugs...

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by guido911



More like racist repugs...

Guido, I rather miss the days when Aox/FOTARD used to call us Gwee-Do-Do and Con-Man, don't you?

I do have to say I chuckle a little everytime I see "repug"- pretty clever.

[FOTD]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

quote:Originally posted by guido911



More like racist repugs...

Guido, I rather miss the days when Aox/FOTARD used to call us Gwee-Do-Do and Con-Man, don't you?

I do have to say I chuckle a little everytime I see "repug"- pretty clever.

Behind his back, one of the devils refers to Guido as Gwee doe doe. But the devils think this type of personal insult fails in a blog and only serves to counter attack baiting insults. It's waisted space.

[Conan71]

So what's the logic on what became of con-man?