Oil @ $150 dollars a barrel

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

quote:Originally posted by sauerkraut

This oil mess is all because the democrats and enviromental wackos who won't let us drill in Alaska or off shore in the Gulf. We have over 100 BILLION barrels right here at home and would not need to import a single drop of oil. Opening up drilling in Alaska will also make many new jobs. There is no oil shortage it's all a political game. They just found a huge oil suppy in North Dakota but we can't drill for it. Another even bigger oil reserve was found off the coast of Rio near South America, that is said to have over 40 Billions Barrels of oil... The oil is here and it's all over the globe but it's being used to play games. Any alternative form of fuel will likely be used to play games by greedy folks. The power grid could not even handle everyone plugging in their electric cars every night, and electric companies can pull an "ENRON" and jack up electric rates making electric cars too expensive to drive.

Its not so much that the price of oil has gone up, its that the dollar has gone down. Also increased demand from developing countries is having a large influence.

Oil is priced globally. If the dollar falls and is, for example, half what it was a year ago... If I go on one of my shopping trips to Paris and want to buy something there, to me, its twice as much as it was. The price hasnt changed, my dollar is worth less. If I want to import that object from Paris, the price didnt change, the falling dollar makes it cost more.  

Americans are actually using less gas than they were. Refining capacity is up. Indeed there is plenty of oil, more oil than there was, more reserves, less use in the US... The dollar has fallen in value.  Add to that others in the world now have more money thus they want to buy oil and that jacks the price up as well. Even if we were to become entirely self sufficient with our own oil production and became oil exporters... the price would still increase as global demand increases.  

If the US currently produces about 7million barrels a day ( http://www.cfaia.com/faq_oil.cfm ) and is somehow able to even double that capacity using the reserves in Alaska and the Gulf, it still wont do any good. It would take time to get that oil coming out of the ground and refining capacity up, yet China alone is increasing its demand by around 1million barrels per year.

Even if the US became a net Oil exporter, the continued growth in developing countries would push up oil prices.

http://www.bloggingstocks.com/2008/04/11/iea-cuts-global-oil-demand-growth-forecast-by-most-in-7-years/

Those are good points A. Add to that complicated formula the possibility that US oil companies don't really want to do the refining. They didn't really try too hard to build new refineries under a sympathetic administration like Bush/Cheney. And if they did there isn't a large qualified labor pool to run them. Its not Dems and environmentalists Sauerkraut. They were satisfied to expand current refineries as was done in Tulsa. They are primarily drillers, wholesalers, traders and marketers. Refining is too dirty, dangerous and difficult. Let Mexico and the Saudis do that stuff. They are energy companies now.

[TheArtist]

While we havent added new refineries, they have been expanding the ones we have "example of that right here in Tulsa". In essence over the last decade they have added the equivalent of about a new refinery a year. Matter of fact, last I heard some refineries were actually cutting back capacity. All the stations, storage tanks, etc are full. Again, there is plenty of oil. No shortages and lines of cars backed up waiting or anything like that. If they were to refine even more... what are they going to do with it here?  Americans are using less and we have expanded refining capacity.

[sauerkraut]

I hear alot about a big push to get electric cars going. I don't think they are thinking this stuff thru. Putting millions of electric cars on the power grid every day will overload the system and pollute the air from the power plants. The electric rates are not cheap. Another thing that I don't understand about electric cars is how will the heater in electric cars work- and they need a heater to defrost the windows in winter, electric resistance coils will be hard on the battery and burn it down faster plus cold weather is hard on batteries. (Electric cars can't get heat the way current cars do since they have no coolant). Then what about A/C in the summer? Can a electric car motor run while spinning a A/C compressor- that will drain alot from the battery. That stuff needs to be worked out.

[shadows]

Technicalities, technicalities, technicalities has stopped the inventoried aspirations that date back to the stone age.   Some may remember PSO bought some electric cars for their meter readers but they wound up in the junk yards a short time later.

With the development of the permit magnet in the electric motor field it greatly reduced the electric consumption in the rotation.  The Rail Roads developed an Iron battery that was more efficient than the lead acid ones in use today.  And there are the lead/jel batteries that are an improvement.

As we have only a small part of the worlds population we demand 25% of the oil usage thus we have a problem.  In some of the undeveloped countries they in the past used charcoal to drive their buses.  Then coal can be liquefied and used in our present engines.  

Then also since China is buying the gas guzzlers that were once our status quo they surely have a glut of Rickshaws for sale.   That will fit into our economy where the rich ride and the poor pull him along in the Rickshaw.   Part of that has been happening for a long time.

The total story is we have stuck our nose in the age old traditions of the mid-east and attacked a country with less than 2.5 times the area of Oklahoma, who has the oil we need but also an unlimited amount explosives that have cost over 4,000 of our youth's lives.          

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by sauerkraut

I hear alot about a big push to get electric cars going. I don't think they are thinking this stuff thru. Putting millions of electric cars on the power grid every day will overload the system and pollute the air from the power plants. The electric rates are not cheap. Another thing that I don't understand about electric cars is how will the heater in electric cars work- and they need a heater to defrost the windows in winter, electric resistance coils will be hard on the battery and burn it down faster plus cold weather is hard on batteries. (Electric cars can't get heat the way current cars do since they have no coolant). Then what about A/C in the summer? Can a electric car motor run while spinning a A/C compressor- that will drain alot from the battery. That stuff needs to be worked out.

It has been. Technology is not so much the problem as you might think. Batteries are not the same as the 12volt in your Suv. And the motors are not the old heavy motors you might be familiar with. I have been reading alot lately about these cars and the applications to other vehicles as well. We are way behind Europe and specifically Germany and England where I assure you it gets cold. They have found solutions to all of them. Electric motors generate heat. Lots of heat. In fact the dissipation of that heat has been a real stumbling block for most applications. Your home a/c also runs off of electricity rather than an engine driven compressor.

I have seen electric motor boats pulling skiers on German lakes. Whereas gasoline is derivative of oil, electricity may come from many different sources that are not polluting. Imagine getting fueled up next to a river charging station in 5minutes or at a hydrogen conversion station. Have faith, its happening.

I have some links if you would like.

[TheArtist]

You know,,, scooters are starting to sound like a lot more fun lol. Would have to be a secondary vehicle for me especially. Get enough strange looks stuffing my scaffolding into my Murano. Cant imagine the looks I would get hauling scaffolding around on a scooter [] Could hang a gallon of paint off each handlebar though. [8D] Little basket on the front full of quarts, paint brushes sticking out my back pockets... could work.

[shadows]

Artist:  With the citizens of Tulsa hiring 16 persons for each square mile of the city they should be able to cover the city on bicycles instead of scooters.   Then too they would not have to work out in a gym.