Obama throws pastor under the bus

[USRufnex]

Once again, I've sung for catholic church on the southside of Chicago... I have a friend who taught English at Englewood HS... a school that is being shut down this year due to these "accountability standards" which do more harm than good in a part of Chicago where families have broken down...

Of course, according to the teachings of IPLAW, these people all brought it on themselves...

So, here's somebody else you won't believe either...

http://chronicle.com/free/v54/i30/30b00101.htm

From the issue dated April 11, 2008

Prophet and Pastor
To his former professor, congregant, and friend, Jeremiah Wright has been both
By MARTIN E. MARTY

Through the decades, the Rev. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr. has called me teacher, reminding me of the years when he earned a master's degree in theology and ministry at the University of Chicago — and friend. My wife and I and our guests have worshiped at Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago, where he recently completed a 36-year ministry.

Images of Wright's strident sermons, and his anger at the treatment of black people in the United States, appear constantly on the Internet and cable television, part of the latest controversy in our political-campaign season. His critics call Wright anti-American. Critics of his critics charge that the clips we hear and see have been taken out of context. But it is not the context of particular sermons that the public needs, as that of Trinity church, and, above all, its pastor.

In the early 1960s, at a time when many young people were being radicalized by the Vietnam War, Wright left college and volunteered to join the United States Marine Corps. After three years as a marine, he chose to serve three more as a naval medical technician, during which time he received several White House commendations. He came to Chicago to study not long after Martin Luther King Jr.'s murder in 1968, the U.S. bombing campaign in Cambodia in 1969, and the shooting of students at Kent State University in 1970.

Wright, like the gifted cohort of his fellow black students, was not content to blend into the academic woodwork. Then the associate dean of the Divinity School, I was informally delegated to talk to the black caucus. We learned that what Wright and his peers wanted was the intense academic and practical preparation for vocations that would make a difference, whether they chose to pursue a Ph.D. or the pastorate. Chicago's Divinity School focuses on what it calls "public ministry," which includes both conventional pastoral roles and carrying the message and work of the church to the public arena. Wright has since picked up numerous honorary doctorates, and served as an adjunct faculty member at several seminaries. But after divinity school, he accepted a call to serve then-struggling Trinity.

Trinity focuses on biblical teaching and preaching. It is a church where music stuns and uplifts, a church given to hospitality and promoting physical and spiritual healing, devoted to education, active in Chicago life, and one that keeps the world church in mind, with a special accent on African Christianity. The four S's charged against Wright — segregation, separatism, sectarianism, and superiority — don't stand up, as countless visitors can attest. I wish those whose vision has been distorted by sermon clips could have experienced what we and our white guests did when we worshiped there: feeling instantly at home.

Yes, while Trinity is "unapologetically Christian," as the second clause in its motto affirms, it is also, as the other clause announces, "unashamedly black." From its beginning, the church has made strenuous efforts to help black Christians overcome the shame they had so long been conditioned to experience.  That its members and pastor are, in their own term, "Africentric" should not be more offensive than that synagogues should be "Judeocentric" or that Chicago's Irish parishes be "Celtic-centric." Wright and colleagues insist that no hierarchy of races is involved. People do not leave Trinity ready to beat up on white people; they are charged to make peace.

To the 10,000 members of Trinity, Jeremiah Wright was, until just a few months ago, "Pastor Wright." Metaphorically, pastor means shepherd. Like members of all congregations, the Trinity flock welcomes strong leadership for organization, prayer, and preaching. One-on-one ministry is not easy with thousands in the flock and when the pastor has national responsibilities, but the forms of worship make each participant feel recognized. Responding to the pastoral call to stand and be honored on Mother's Day, for instance, grandmothers, single mothers, stepmothers, foster mothers, gay-and-lesbian couples, all mothers stood when we visited. Wright asked how many believed that they were alive because of the church's health fairs. The members of the large pastoral staff know many hundreds of names, while hundreds of lay people share the ministry.

Now, for the hard business: the sermons, which have been mercilessly chipped into for wearying television clips. While Wright's sermons were pastoral — my wife and I have always been awed to hear the Christian Gospel parsed for our personal lives — they were also prophetic. At the university, we used to remark, half lightheartedly, that this Jeremiah was trying to live up to his namesake, the seventh-century B.C. prophet. Though Jeremiah of old did not "curse" his people of Israel, Wright, as a biblical scholar, could point out that the prophets Hosea and Micah did. But the Book of Jeremiah, written by numbers of authors, is so full of blasts and quasi curses — what biblical scholars call "imprecatory topoi" — that New England preachers invented a sermonic form called "the jeremiad," a style revived in some Wrightian shouts.

In the end, however, Jeremiah was the prophet of hope, and that note of hope is what attracts the multiclass membership at Trinity and significant television audiences. Both Jeremiahs gave the people work to do: to advance the missions of social justice and mercy that improve the lot of the suffering. For a sample, read Jeremiah 29, where the prophet's letter to the exiles in Babylon exhorts them to settle down and "seek the peace and prosperity of the city to which I have carried you into exile." Or listen to many a Jeremiah Wright sermon.

One may properly ask whether or how Jeremiah Wright — or anyone else — experiences a prophetic call. Back when American radicals wanted to be called prophets, I heard Saul Bellow say (and, I think, later saw it in writing): "Being a prophet is nice work if you can get it, but sooner or later you have to mention God." Wright mentioned God sooner. My wife and I recall but a single overtly political pitch. Wright wanted 2,000 letters of protest sent to the Chicago mayor's office about a public-library policy. Of course, if we had gone more often, in times of profound tumult, we would have heard much more. The United Church of Christ is a denomination that has taken raps for being liberal — for example for its 50th anniversary "God is still speaking" campaign and its pledge to be open and affirming to all, including gay people. In its lineage are Jonathan Edwards and Reinhold and Richard Niebuhr, America's three most-noted theologians; the Rev. King was much at home there.

Friendship develops through many gestures and shared delights (in the Marty case, stops for sinfully rich barbecue after evening services), and people across the economic spectrum can attest to the generosity of the Wright family.

It would be unfair to Wright to gloss over his abrasive — to say the least — edges, so, in the "Nobody's Perfect" column, I'll register some criticisms. To me, Trinity's honoring of Minister Louis Farrakhan was abhorrent and indefensible, and Wright's fantasies about the U.S. government's role in spreading AIDS distracting and harmful. He, himself, is also aware of the now-standard charge by some African-American clergy who say he is a victim of cultural lag, overinfluenced by the terrible racial situation when he was formed.

Having said that, and reserving the right to offer more criticisms, I've been too impressed by the way Wright preaches the Christian Gospel to break with him. Those who were part of his ministry for years — school superintendents, nurses, legislators, teachers, laborers, the unemployed, the previously shunned and shamed, the anxious — are not going to turn their backs on their pastor and prophet.

Martin E. Marty is a professor emeritus at the University of Chicago Divinity School and a panelist for On Faith, of Washingtonpost.com. His most recent book is The Christian World: A Global History (Modern Library, 2008).

[iplaw]

quote:Originally posted by USRufnex
I agree with about 80% of this sermon.

I feel sorry for you then.  To say that you agree with 80% of this shows how gullible you really are.  I'm not going to tackle these individually, but all have been analyzed previously and the vast majority of his accusations are absolutely baseless.

quote:
I agree that pig-headed, pin-headed lawyeristic BS artists who consistently subscribe to pro-republican dogma...... who wouldn't give a damn about anybody except their own selfishness.....

What the hell does this have to do with anything?  Why not just call me a poopoohead?  It would have saved you some time.

quote:
Are the very same people who play gotcha games with Rev Wright... an older generation black man who doesn't put up with YOUR crap, IPLAW, when it comes to his congregation.

Again, what the hell does this mean?  Why do I care if Wright wants to "put up" with my crap?

quote:
Rev Wright was in the MARINE CORPS... I have much more respect for him over idiotic chicken hawks like Dick Cheney and George W. and the politically correct republican Hoi palloi who insist that the only way you can be a patriot in this country is to be one of those "I'm proud to be an American, where at least I know I'm free" craptistic bull mullarky... "Amerika, Amerika, uber alles"...

Who cares if he was a Marine?  Timothy McVeigh was a decorated soldier...

You criticize the right for bestowing honor on servicemen, but use the same tactic to justify giving this loon a pass, sounds a bit duplicitous to me.

quote:
Enough is enough.  Not this time.  Not this year.  

Okay...

quote:
In my years attending evangelical churches, I heard MANY THINGS I didn't agree with... and I stayed in the church for years, not because I agreed with statements like "Ronald Reagan is God's president" but the other things....

There's a difference between comments you "may not agree with" and nutjob conspiracy theories (Govt creating AIDS for genocide) being preached from the pulpit.  Would you stay in a church where the pastor was a 9/11 Truther and preached it from the pulpit?  I doubt it.

quote:
But of course, you won't believe me...

I don't need to.  I can evaluate and analyze the situation for myself as are other Americans.  

Obama's dropping in the polls and for good reason.

[FOTD]

IPLaw, Define "other Americans".

Are they the ones who elected Dumbya?

Are they the ones with style, composure and class?

Are they the "other Americans" with insight, maturity, and self perception that are accepting and comfortable with what they see?

Or are they busy each day listening to fright wing nut radio meatheads that spew Wright's "goddamn America" voice over and over without a mention of Hagee hate and McCaint endorsements?

[iplaw]

quote:Originally posted by FOTD

IPLaw, Define "other Americans".

Are they the ones who elected Dumbya?

Are they the ones with style, composure and class?

Are they the "other Americans" with insight, maturity, and self perception that are accepting and comfortable with what they see?

Or are they busy each day listening to fright wing nut radio meatheads that spew Wright's "goddamn America" voice over and over without a mention of Hagee hate and McCaint endorsements?

According to a New York Times/CBS News poll, 51 per cent of Democratic voters now say they expect Obama to win their party's nomination. That's an 18 point-slide from a month ago when 69 per cent said they expected Obama to take on Republican John McCain in the November presidential election.


YOUR party members are shrinking back from him.  Those are the "other Americans" I'm speaking of.  18% of Democratic voters are being turned off by something about Obama...geez I wonder what that something is?

As far as Hagee, I know your trying your best, but McCain didn't sit in the pews of fatty's church for 20 years.

If we're going to impute guilt by endorsement, didn't Obama get endorsed by Farrakhan?

[iplaw]

One more question Ruff...

Obama has now come out and denounced Wright for a second time saying his comments are hateful and divisive.  Do you agree with Obama or not?

[FOTD]

It's obvious you ignore Ruff's posts. We know you can't get past the source of most my posts.

Prostituting oneself to Intolerant Right Wing Fundamentalist ministers is far worse than sitting in the pews listening to a now and then rant.

I belong to two congregations. Both have upset me numerous times over 40 years. I'm still attending there occasionally for the companionship of my friends I grew up with and the congregation's need for participation.

This Wright business is mindless swift boating shenanigans that will backfire on the republijerks big come November. Recall, we will not be fooled again.

[Gaspar]

quote:Originally posted by FOTD

It's obvious you ignore Ruff's posts. We know you can't get past the source of most my posts.

Prostituting oneself to Intolerant Right Wing Fundamentalist ministers is far worse than sitting in the pews listening to a now and then rant.

I belong to two congregations. Both have upset me numerous times over 40 years. I'm still attending there occasionally for the companionship of my friends I grew up with and the congregation's need for participation.

This Wright business is mindless swift boating shenanigans that will backfire on the republijerks big come November. Recall, we will not be fooled again.

That's funny, the "republijerks" have refused to comment on it.  It's all within the same party.  Hillary's fundraiser invites Wright to speak at the press club, then she pounces.  McCain chooses not to comment.

I know it's your nature to blame everything on republicans and offer some goofy nomenclature and perhaps a moonbat article or two, but this has nothing to do with republicans or anyone outside of the Democrat party.  You guys are fighting your own internal war now.

But you should be happy!  3 SDs have announced support for your candidate today.

[iplaw]

quote:t's obvious you ignore Ruff's posts.

Really?  Would you like to expand on this FauxTurd?  I'm interested in what I've ignored.

Are you going to address my "other Americans" post or are poll numbers and logical arguments too much for AOX?

[FOTD]

quote:Originally posted by Gaspar

quote:Originally posted by FOTD

It's obvious you ignore Ruff's posts. We know you can't get past the source of most my posts.

Prostituting oneself to Intolerant Right Wing Fundamentalist ministers is far worse than sitting in the pews listening to a now and then rant.

I belong to two congregations. Both have upset me numerous times over 40 years. I'm still attending there occasionally for the companionship of my friends I grew up with and the congregation's need for participation.

This Wright business is mindless swift boating shenanigans that will backfire on the republijerks big come November. Recall, we will not be fooled again.

That's funny, the "republijerks" have refused to comment on it.  It's all within the same party.  Hillary's fundraiser invites Wright to speak at the press club, then she pounces.  McCain chooses not to comment.

I know it's your nature to blame everything on republicans and offer some goofy nomenclature and perhaps a moonbat article or two, but this has nothing to do with republicans or anyone outside of the Democrat party.  You guys are fighting your own internal war now.

But you should be happy!  3 SDs have announced support for your candidate today.

Oh garbage. The republicans are there constantly keeping the fire going in the background. Give me a break. And Billary's own staff seems to be laying the kindle down. Like two little mischievous children with a strong wind, dry grass, and a sense of being evil.

[FOTD]

quote:Originally posted by iplaw

quote:t's obvious you ignore Ruff's posts.

Really?  Would you like to expand on this FauxTurd?  I'm interested in what I've ignored.

Are you going to address my "other Americans" post or are poll numbers and logical arguments too much for AOX?

Only %29 of republicans are happy with their own party. That makes you a minority.

[cannon_fodder]

Only 2% of readers believe your posts when you have no support for your numbers.  Not that I doubt them, just can't find that 29% number anywhere and well, you generally pull numbers and ideas from thin air and present them as fact.

[iplaw]

quote:Originally posted by FOTD

quote:Originally posted by iplaw

quote:t's obvious you ignore Ruff's posts.

Really?  Would you like to expand on this FauxTurd?  I'm interested in what I've ignored.

Are you going to address my "other Americans" post or are poll numbers and logical arguments too much for AOX?

Only %29 of republicans are happy with their own party. That makes you a minority.

Still not answering the question?  No real surprises here.  I don't blame you though, if I debated as poorly as you I'd be happy being a drive-by bomb thrower too.

[cannon_fodder]

ip, I spent 6 or 7 posts trying to get him to address a topic he raised.  He posted a thread then refused to defend it's content. Facts, proof, argument... it doesn't really matter.

Facts he doesn't like are just lies.

Proof he doesn't like can easily be countered with opinion.

And you don't need to argue if your opinion an be supported by other opinions and a topic change ends the discussion in your favor.

Here, let me help.  You lie.  I win.

[iplaw]

quote:You lie. I win.

Go it.  I guess he's no FauxTurd, he's the real deal.

Maybe I give AOX too much credit when I actually think he's going to answer a question or respond in a meaningful way.  

[USRufnex]

quote:Originally posted by iplaw

One more question Ruff...

Obama has now come out and denounced Wright for a second time saying his comments are hateful and divisive.  Do you agree with Obama or not?

How 'bout I answer a question with another question or two, Mr. Lawyerspeak:

Did Senator Obama denounce 100% of Wright's comments and previous sermons as "hateful and divisive"?

If your pastor made his views known that "global warming is a hoax," would you leave the church?  Would you denounce or disown that pastor?

If your pastor made statements that "the United Nations is an instrument of the devil," would you stay at that church?

OBAMA'S QUOTES ON WRIGHT:  "When he states and then amplifies such ridiculous propositions as the U.S. government somehow being involved in AIDS; when he suggests that Minister Farrakhan somehow represents one of the greatest voices of the 20th and 21st century; when he equates the United States' wartime efforts with terrorism, then there are no excuses. They offend me, they rightly offend all Americans, and they should be denounced. And that's what I'm doing very clearly and unequivocally here today."

Obama has worked in Washington as a US Senator and Springfield, IL (170 miles from the southside of Chicago) as a state senator... how often in the past 10-15 years do you think he attended that church?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2zvD4FyC1M

"What did YOUR pastor preach on last week..."

Enjoy your witch-hunt... /sarcasm.

--Ruf