Proposed City Budget

[TulsaSooner]

No comments on this yet?

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080502_238_A1_hTayl38233

[shadows]

A million here and a million there, it adds up to some real money.  In a city where the working poor has an income of around $13,500 (all pay the same for the necessaries of life), and are forced to pay their city employees in excess of a $100,000 (who in most cases set their own salaries) it easy to understand why a democracy republic type of government fails as past history points out.

After all this only adds another $54,50 yearly to the retires and working poor while it is considered only tip money to the $100,000 including millionaires earners of our city in recession.  

[TulsaSooner]

Finally, the voice of reason.

[Chicken Little]

quote:  "This is an essentially flat budget," Taylor told councilors.

I'm a little surprised that Tulsa Hills isn't contributing something into the sales tax coffers.  Ultimately it's supposed to be 1.5 million square feet of retail with half of that opening in 2008.  At annual sales of $200 per square foot one might expect the city to be taking in from about $30 to $60 million in new revenue, i.e. $200 x 1,500,000 x $.02 (the city's portion of the sales tax) = $60 million.  (NOTE:  I was way off with this, it's $6,000,000, I believe.  If I were Emily Latilla, I'd say, "Nevermind.")  I don't remember what amount that LaFortune gave back to the developers with that TIF, but it seems like the new strip should be doing more...like as much as a 5 to 10% boost in revenue, right?

Maybe it is because it's still in start-up and the forecasters are ignoring it.  Either that or they are predicting a heck of a recession.  Or, maybe I'm just missing something altogether.

All things being equal, Tulsa Hills is a huge, strategically placed, retail center designed to  steal back some of that revenue that is being lost to the booming 'burbs.  If it doesn't work then I'm a little freaked.

[Chicken Little]

Tulsa Hills article from February:
http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/article.aspx?articleID=20080215_5_e1_world38233

[patric]

All those new Vision 2025 Acorn Lights are starting to add up, and we'll be facing the growing electric bill for them until we re-envision what it would be like to actually have streetlights that help you see.

It wasnt enough of a warning that the Mayors office reported that between 2003 and 2006 the cost to light our streets doubled, we had to continue the trend and spend.

[TulsaSooner]

quote:Originally posted by Chicken Little

quote:  "This is an essentially flat budget," Taylor told councilors.

I'm a little surprised that Tulsa Hills isn't contributing something into the sales tax coffers.  Ultimately it's supposed to be 1.5 million square feet of retail with half of that opening in 2008.  At annual sales of $200 per square foot one might expect the city to be taking in from about $30 to $60 million in new revenue, i.e. $200 x 1,500,000 x $.02 (the city's portion of the sales tax) = $60 million.  I don't remember what amount that LaFortune gave back to the developers with that TIF, but it seems like the new strip should be doing more...like as much as a 5 to 10% boost in revenue, right?

Maybe it is because it's still in start-up and the forecasters are ignoring it.  Either that or they are predicting a heck of a recession.  Or, maybe I'm just missing something altogether.

All things being equal, Tulsa Hills is a huge, strategically placed, retail center designed to  steal back some of that revenue that is being lost to the booming 'burbs.  If it doesn't work then I'm a little freaked.

Our sales tax is $.03 with one of those pennies going toward capital improvements....also known as the "third penny" sales tax.

The Tulsa Hills TIF gets ALL sales and property tax generated which will go toward the debt service.  If there is anything above the debt service, reserve requirements, etc, then I the city will get that.  That's my understanding of it anyway.  I don't recall what the bond issue was for TH, but I'm thinking in the neighborhood of $18.5 million.

[Chicken Little]

quote:Originally posted by TulsaSooner

quote:Originally posted by Chicken Little

quote:  "This is an essentially flat budget," Taylor told councilors.

I'm a little surprised that Tulsa Hills isn't contributing something into the sales tax coffers.  Ultimately it's supposed to be 1.5 million square feet of retail with half of that opening in 2008.  At annual sales of $200 per square foot one might expect the city to be taking in from about $30 to $60 million in new revenue, i.e. $200 x 1,500,000 x $.02 (the city's portion of the sales tax) = $60 million.  I don't remember what amount that LaFortune gave back to the developers with that TIF, but it seems like the new strip should be doing more...like as much as a 5 to 10% boost in revenue, right?

Maybe it is because it's still in start-up and the forecasters are ignoring it.  Either that or they are predicting a heck of a recession.  Or, maybe I'm just missing something altogether.

All things being equal, Tulsa Hills is a huge, strategically placed, retail center designed to  steal back some of that revenue that is being lost to the booming 'burbs.  If it doesn't work then I'm a little freaked.

Our sales tax is $.03 with one of those pennies going toward capital improvements....also known as the "third penny" sales tax.

The Tulsa Hills TIF gets ALL sales and property tax generated which will go toward the debt service.  If there is anything above the debt service, reserve requirements, etc, then I the city will get that.  That's my understanding of it anyway.  I don't recall what the bond issue was for TH, but I'm thinking in the neighborhood of $18.5 million.

Not wanting to split hairs but the city "operating" budget (which is what this article is about) is based on the 2 pennies, not the 3rd penny.  The third penny is a separate bond issue and is really just the revenue to pay off the bonds for the third penny projects we vote for.

[rwarn17588]

quote:Originally posted by Chicken Little

quote:  "This is an essentially flat budget," Taylor told councilors.

I'm a little surprised that Tulsa Hills isn't contributing something into the sales tax coffers.  Ultimately it's supposed to be 1.5 million square feet of retail with half of that opening in 2008.  At annual sales of $200 per square foot one might expect the city to be taking in from about $30 to $60 million in new revenue, i.e. $200 x 1,500,000 x $.02 (the city's portion of the sales tax) = $60 million.  I don't remember what amount that LaFortune gave back to the developers with that TIF, but it seems like the new strip should be doing more...like as much as a 5 to 10% boost in revenue, right?

Maybe it is because it's still in start-up and the forecasters are ignoring it.  Either that or they are predicting a heck of a recession.  Or, maybe I'm just missing something altogether.

All things being equal, Tulsa Hills is a huge, strategically placed, retail center designed to  steal back some of that revenue that is being lost to the booming 'burbs.  If it doesn't work then I'm a little freaked.

I think the budget is assuming very conservative revenue estimates, as it should. It's better to be prepared for possibly underperforming cash flow, then be pleasantly surprised if revenues match or exceed estimates.

This is a case of the city being prudent. The real-estate collapse is a good example of what happens when the bean-counters get too optimistic in their estimates.

[Wrinkle]

TW Quote:

quote: The operating budget is $528.4 million, a 3.3 percent increase, and the capital budget is $62.3 million, a 7.8 percent increase.

...don't know why anyone's calling it 'flat'.

3.3% fairly represents cost of living escalation. Capital budget more than doubles that.

[Chicken Little]

quote:Originally posted by rwarn17588

I think the budget is assuming very conservative revenue estimates, as it should. It's better to be prepared for possibly underperforming cash flow, then be pleasantly surprised if revenues match or exceed estimates.

This is a case of the city being prudent. The real-estate collapse is a good example of what happens when the bean-counters get too optimistic in their estimates.

Conservative is fine, but being too conservative has adverse effects.  I'd hate to think that the city is missing opportunities to  repair, invest, and find new ways to grow.  Whether they budget it or not, they'll still spend it.  I'd rather see that money programmed into the budget, and not blown on some end-of-year party.

Between new revenue from Tulsa Hills and last year's lost revenue from the ice storm, I'll bet their budget estimate for next year is off by 10% (too low, that is).

[Chicken Little]

quote:Originally posted by Wrinkle

TW Quote:

quote: The operating budget is $528.4 million, a 3.3 percent increase, and the capital budget is $62.3 million, a 7.8 percent increase.

...don't know why anyone's calling it 'flat'.

3.3% fairly represents cost of living escalation. Capital budget more than doubles that.

Old CPI measures are pretty silly when gas prices have doubled in the last few years.  CPI throws out food and energy increases (because they choose to).

Seeing as capital construction projects depend heavily on the cost of energy, labor, and raw materials, I can understand why that number might spike.  Between gas prices, insurance premiums, and the ever-rising cost of concrete and steel...all of which outpace inflation, a 7.8% increase in one year might indeed be pretty "flat".  If it doesn't buy you any more than it did the previous year, it's flat.

[Wrinkle]

O.K., then, let's try the math:

2007-2008 Budget:            $504,876,000

Proposed 2008-2009 Budget:   $528,400,000

Difference:  4.7%

Expression on Mayor's face:   Priceless

[RecycleMichael]

I agree that Tulsa Hills should add to the sales tax coffers, but your best prediction was 30 to 60 million and it will only be open for a partial year. I think your 30 is a better guess and she is predicting 21 million more in revenue.

I think they are being prudently pessimistic about the national recession we are sliding into and next year we won't have a big golf championship in town to boost the tourism dollars.

21 million more revenue dollars seems like a good guess to me.

[shadows]

The 590.7 million budget has a statute cap of not more than 10% of the previous years budget.  Any citizen can protest the budget before the council votes on it.   You will be given 5 minutes to explain the objection to the council of some 500 pages of the budget.

There are firms that will go over the budget and charge a fee of 1\2 of the money they can save the citizens.   In the past a firm was commissioned to look into the Tulsa budget (seems I have a copy) which recommended that the ratio of city employees to the taxpayers citizens  (city employees do not pay taxes they rebate those received from the city or pay them in the burbs) is out of focus.  It recommended that Tulsa should reduce the chiefs and replace them with less workers to save money.  The cost of the survey was $50.000 dollars.   It did not take long to trash the survey.

Another appointed buddy was added to the mayor's 16 unrestricted appointments to city employees this past week at a cost well over $100,000 dollars.  Mayor is not having a hard time filling the glass monstrosities top floor along with appointees and bankers.

If one divides the $590.7 million by the total estimated population of Tulsa of 384,000 which included children but excluded dogs and cats you come up with the figure of the ratio of how many city employees it takes to govern per resident.

Its all one mans opinion but if you protest the budget they play hot potato with it and no court will touch it.  The courts will assume jurisdiction then ask for briefs be filed, to establish if they do, after presumed in-conferences chambers meeting with the city.