TCC Bond Issue Vote 5-13-08

[Composer]

I have already voted no via absentee.  I have a few reasons for doing so.  I think Owasso is a great community but I think the campus on Apache is close enough, roughly 10 miles.  If Owasso wants a learning center, that is something they could raise in their own bond issue.  

I also believe property taxes now are currently high in many areas and we need to be prepared to pay for streets in Tulsa.

[PonderInc]

Did I read somewhere that this tax would never expire?  It just goes on forever?

[Townsend]

http://www.kjrh.com/media/news/f/e/a/feacb988-d8f2-4818-afba-48b94311bf84/May1308TulsaTech.pdf


PROPOSITION NO. 1
"Shall Tulsa Community College
Technology Center School District incur
an indebtedness by issuing its bonds in
the sum of Seventy Six Million Dollars
($76,000,000) to provide funds for capital
improvements to provide supplemental
accommodations for post-secondary
vocational and technical education programs
offered at the Tulsa Community
College and levy and collect an annual
tax, in addition to all other taxes, upon all
the taxable property in such District sufficient
to pay the interest on such bonds as
it falls due and also to constitute a sinking
fund for the payment of the principal
thereof when due, said bonds to bear
interest not to exceed the rate of ten
(10%) percentum per annum, payable
semi-annually and to become due serially
within seven years from their date?"

FOR THE PROPOSITION - YES
AGAINST THE PROPOSITION - NO

PROPOSITION NO. 2
"Shall Tulsa Community College
Technology Center School District levy
and collect an annual tax of one and
seven-tenths mills on the dollar valuation
of all the taxable property in such District,
in addition to all other taxes, pursuant to
Article X, Section 9B(A) of the Oklahoma
Constitution, for each fiscal year until
repealed by a majority of the electors of
the School District voting on the question
at an election called for such purpose to
provide additional funds for post-secondary
vocational and/or technical and/or
adult education programs in the School
District?"

FOR THE PROPOSITION - YES
AGAINST THE PROPOSITION - NO

[MichaelBates]

quote:Originally posted by PonderInc

Did I read somewhere that this tax would never expire?  It just goes on forever?

Proposition No. 2 is a permanent 1.7 mill tax increase. Prop. No. 1 is a general obligation bond issue, which amounts to a temporary property tax increase of about 3.1 mills.

The current TCC millage is 7.21.

[RecycleMichael]

Thanks Michael.

I always get millage, village, and pillage confused.

I thought Hillary's book was about Atilla the Tax Collector.

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by swake

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

I received one of their calls last night. For the first time in my life I am voting against an education proposal.

TCC is a poor administrator of tax dollars imo.
I believe they practice age discrimination.
Their human resources dept. is inept. and unresponsive. (I know this has become common throughout the business world but this is tax dollars)
They cannibalized the areas surrounding the downtown facility for asphalt lots.
Wage disparity is embarrassingly out of balance. Read their classified ads.

I told the caller that at some point TCC will have its attitude with the public reflected back towards them. For me, this is that point.

I also am voting no for the first time.

TCC is a poor downtown citizen, works to block 1st and 2nd year classes from being offered by OSU and OU Tulsa and isn't the higher education entity that we need to work to grow.

I agree with SWAKE.

The reason that TCC got to be the largest Junior College in Oklahoma is because OU, OSU, TU and ORU blocked for DECADES any 4-year State- supported university branch from being located in Tulsa.

Tulsa was the largest city in the U.S. NOT served by a 4-year state supported university.

Another Tulsa PREMIUM, folks, biting us all on the rear.

When the UCAT consortium/Abortion was cobbled together as a Bad compromise in the early 80's after some Tulsa business leaders and politicians started showing a tiny bit of backbone, even then the most popular programs were channeled to less desirable Northeastern and Langston programs.

Like, who WANTS an accounting degree from Langston?

So, for PROTECTIONIST reasons, TCC was allowed to grow into its gigantic mutant state, due to UNDERSERVED 4-year STATE programs in Tulsa.

Now, they are a giant, tax-sucking political fact.

In fact, they are so large politically, they generate their own gravity, sucking money directly from our pockets due to their inherent magnetism.

Blame it on Sir Isaac Newton?



[]

[inteller]

well Im glad to see you traditional yessirs getting on the right side of the issue, but sadly there will be enough lemmings go to the booth next week to force this one through.

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by Wrinkle

quote:Originally posted by twizzler

quote: It seems to me a major portion of this bond issue is to construct an Owasso branch of TCC.

Approximately $16M of the $76M proposal would go to the Owasso learning center - or 21%. A majority?

quote: I say, if Owasso residents want it, let them pay for it.

You do realize Owasso residents have been helping to pay for the Tulsa campuses all along?

I understood that $36 million of these potential proceeds are unallocated, making the Owasso campus over 50% of those that are.

Also not too fond of having over 1/3rd of a tax increase not accounted.

TCC is well funded, otherwise they couldn't offer free tuition and fees, or build and maintain their four existing campuses.

The pay scale and retirement benefits of those in charge are flat astronomical as well.

And, the slug they're being on OSU/OU growing is just wrong. Perhaps if they were out of business altogether, OSU and OU would grow to what we expect. And, we'd save a whole lot of Ad Valorem tax to boot.

Yup, I'm voting NO.

Regarding retirement benefits, I fondly remember how my tax dollars funded an extraordinary, special $1 million annuity given to former President Dean Van Trease for services rendered (to the local Construction Cartel and connected cronies).

A sweet kiss in the mail.  Every month.

[TheArtist]

My main problem with this is that our public, 4 year, graduate universities can barely keep up with the large number of students TCC is churning out. Its great that they are getting so many students and I am glad that tuition is so cheap at TCC. But, I would rather be spending money to expand OU Tulsa and OSU Tulsa.

I dont get why so many on here mention that OU and OSU need to expand to offer first 2 year courses? For goodness sakes, expand the 4 year graduate programs to take on and keep the TCC graduates in Tulsa.

I remember when I graduated from TCC. I didnt need another college offering the first 2 years, I needed a college that offered the next 2 years.

TCC is going to be getting more students regardless of whether they expand with this vote. Those students are going to need to take their next 2 years somewhere.... and you want OSU or OU to add more first 2 year programs instead of graduate ones? What on earth would that do? If they get ANY more money, for goodness sakes, add more graduate programs.

If I had my druthers this vote would be for more graduate programs at OU Tulsa and OSU Tulsa. We are gonna be training students and then watching as they then move to some other city and finish their degrees if they cant finish them here.

I cant for the life of me figure out why people would want any limited funds that MAY, hopefully, someday, go to OU Tulsa or OSU Tulsa, to go to pay for first year classes and not graduate classes? They dont have enough graduate courses as it is.

[Renaissance]

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

My main problem with this is that our public, 4 year, graduate universities can barely keep up with the large number of students TCC is churning out. Its great that they are getting so many students and I am glad that tuition is so cheap at TCC. But, I would rather be spending money to expand OU Tulsa and OSU Tulsa.

I dont get why so many on here mention that OU and OSU need to expand to offer first 2 year courses? For goodness sakes, expand the 4 year graduate programs to take on and keep the TCC graduates in Tulsa.

I remember when I graduated from TCC. I didnt need another college offering the first 2 years, I needed a college that offered the next 2 years.

TCC is going to be getting more students regardless of whether they expand with this vote. Those students are going to need to take their next 2 years somewhere.... and you want OSU or OU to add more first 2 year programs instead of graduate ones? What on earth would that do? If they get ANY more money, for goodness sakes, add more graduate programs.

If I had my druthers this vote would be for more graduate programs at OU Tulsa and OSU Tulsa. We are gonna be training students and then watching as they then move to some other city and finish their degrees if they cant finish them here.

I cant for the life of me figure out why people would want any limited funds that MAY, hopefully, someday, go to OU Tulsa or OSU Tulsa, to go to pay for first year classes and not graduate classes? They dont have enough graduate courses as it is.

The idea is that if OSU-Tulsa is ever going to become a true 4-year public university, and complement downtown development with campus expansion including student residences, then it's going to have to have first- and second-year courses.

edit: spelling

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by Floyd

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

My main problem with this is that our public, 4 year, graduate universities can barely keep up with the large number of students TCC is churning out. Its great that they are getting so many students and I am glad that tuition is so cheap at TCC. But, I would rather be spending money to expand OU Tulsa and OSU Tulsa.

I dont get why so many on here mention that OU and OSU need to expand to offer first 2 year courses? For goodness sakes, expand the 4 year graduate programs to take on and keep the TCC graduates in Tulsa.

I remember when I graduated from TCC. I didnt need another college offering the first 2 years, I needed a college that offered the next 2 years.

TCC is going to be getting more students regardless of whether they expand with this vote. Those students are going to need to take their next 2 years somewhere.... and you want OSU or OU to add more first 2 year programs instead of graduate ones? What on earth would that do? If they get ANY more money, for goodness sakes, add more graduate programs.

If I had my druthers this vote would be for more graduate programs at OU Tulsa and OSU Tulsa. We are gonna be training students and then watching as they then move to some other city and finish their degrees if they cant finish them here.

I cant for the life of me figure out why people would want any limited funds that MAY, hopefully, someday, go to OU Tulsa or OSU Tulsa, to go to pay for first year classes and not graduate classes? They dont have enough graduate courses as it is.

The idea is that if OSU-Tulsa is ever going to become a true 4-year public university, and complement downtown development with campus expansion including student residences, then it's going to have to have first- and second-year courses.

edit: spelling

For DECADES, OSU, along with TU and ORU fought vociferously against a 4-Year State Supported branch from being located in Tulsa.  ORU and TU saw this as a threat to their local COMMUTER student base who had very few options for a 4-Year degree locally.

Why did OSU oppose it:  Because the state legislators representing those powerful interests at OSU, for instance, just couldn't brook the thought of Eskimo Joe's selling less beer, or the Hideaway Pizza selling less pizza.

Or, the slum-lord landlords missing high occupancy rates and strong rack rents.

Again, this is Tulsans paying the Tulsa PREMIUM because of terrible local business and political leadership - For DECADES.

Even during periods when Tulsans held position State Senate Leader (Roger Randle and Finis Smith), and Governor (David Hall and Frank Keating).  These men were serving a DIFFERENT constituency than TULSA.

OKC does not have this problem, because it has OU-Norman within easy commuting distance of their metroplex.

Tulsa is left with an adopted step child called OSU-Tulsa, that the Foster Parent OSU counseled ABORTION during the early gestation period of its UCAT existence.

And, the state awarded ultimately Custody to the Abortionist - OSU - Tulsa.

That just figures.

Welcome to Oklahoma.  Meet Dumb and Dumber.

Did I mention we have 27 different state university SYSTEMS?

[gary]

What does these people think we are made of??? With the price of gas food and other bills,im having a very very hard time feeding and housing my family!!! Im so sick of these money hungery pigs in pubic office making all these bs plans to them richer and the working people more poor!!! I have a plan to fix it, fire every damn one of them and start over!!! The new mayor will punch a time card and get 15 an hour and no work no pay and that goes for the rest of them from the top of the list to the bottom! Im sorry folks I would love to vote yes but I will vote NO this time.

[Ed W]

I think it would be great to have a campus here in Owasso, especially since it ties into the new hospitals.  That translates quickly into jobs, and unless you've been hiding under a rock somewhere, we desperately need nurses and technicians.  More jobs yield more taxpayers and more money for local government.

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by gary

What does these people think we are made of??? With the price of gas food and other bills,im having a very very hard time feeding and housing my family!!! Im so sick of these money hungery pigs in pubic office making all these bs plans to them richer and the working people more poor!!! I have a plan to fix it, fire every damn one of them and start over!!! The new mayor will punch a time card and get 15 an hour and no work no pay and that goes for the rest of them from the top of the list to the bottom! Im sorry folks I would love to vote yes but I will vote NO this time.

The major elements of the local power establishment (do I smell Flint-co or Rooney-Co) really does not care the slightest about your budget squeeze.

They have a much more important objective:

They NEED to FEED their GREED.

And, they are ALWAYS hungry.


[:O]

[TheArtist]

quote:Originally posted by gary

What does these people think we are made of??? With the price of gas food and other bills,im having a very very hard time feeding and housing my family!!! Im so sick of these money hungery pigs in pubic office making all these bs plans to them richer and the working people more poor!!! I have a plan to fix it, fire every damn one of them and start over!!! The new mayor will punch a time card and get 15 an hour and no work no pay and that goes for the rest of them from the top of the list to the bottom! Im sorry folks I would love to vote yes but I will vote NO this time.

Ummm, perhaps if you went to college and got a better paying job... I know of a college that has very flexible hours for adult students and is extremely affordable. And ya know what... Its right here in town and has several campuses to pick from.