TCC Bond Issue Vote 5-13-08

[TheArtist]

quote:Originally posted by Floyd

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

My main problem with this is that our public, 4 year, graduate universities can barely keep up with the large number of students TCC is churning out. Its great that they are getting so many students and I am glad that tuition is so cheap at TCC. But, I would rather be spending money to expand OU Tulsa and OSU Tulsa.

I dont get why so many on here mention that OU and OSU need to expand to offer first 2 year courses? For goodness sakes, expand the 4 year graduate programs to take on and keep the TCC graduates in Tulsa.

I remember when I graduated from TCC. I didnt need another college offering the first 2 years, I needed a college that offered the next 2 years.

TCC is going to be getting more students regardless of whether they expand with this vote. Those students are going to need to take their next 2 years somewhere.... and you want OSU or OU to add more first 2 year programs instead of graduate ones? What on earth would that do? If they get ANY more money, for goodness sakes, add more graduate programs.

If I had my druthers this vote would be for more graduate programs at OU Tulsa and OSU Tulsa. We are gonna be training students and then watching as they then move to some other city and finish their degrees if they cant finish them here.

I cant for the life of me figure out why people would want any limited funds that MAY, hopefully, someday, go to OU Tulsa or OSU Tulsa, to go to pay for first year classes and not graduate classes? They dont have enough graduate courses as it is.

The idea is that if OSU-Tulsa is ever going to become a true 4-year public university, and complement downtown development with campus expansion including student residences, then it's going to have to have first- and second-year courses.

edit: spelling

I think OSU Tulsa and TCC metro could basically make that 4 year university. There are students who live on campus at TU and go to TCC right now. Can happen with OSU if they build the housing.

It would be nice if OSU were able to add first year classes, but at this immediate point in time I would rather them add more graduate classes... and housing. We are not gonna get both, there is only so much money available for us to beg for and who knows if we are going to get any, period. I am just thinking for the moment how do we use what money we may eventually get for OSU Tulsa, what would do the most good right now? Housing, more graduate classes and tying OSU and TCC metro together would give us the most immediate bang for the buck. Then growing OSU from there with first year classes. Its good to have a live on campus, but its also good to have graduate programs and classes at OSU, for those who have started at any TCC campus, rather than leaving the area or state to go to some other graduate college. My sister moved to Arkansas to get her graduate degree. Stop a lot of people from having to leave the entire area first, then focus on getting more and more to stay downtown.

This whole situation is still a mess, but it is getting better, has gotten better.

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by gary

What does these people think we are made of??? With the price of gas food and other bills,im having a very very hard time feeding and housing my family!!! Im so sick of these money hungery pigs in pubic office making all these bs plans to them richer and the working people more poor!!! I have a plan to fix it, fire every damn one of them and start over!!! The new mayor will punch a time card and get 15 an hour and no work no pay and that goes for the rest of them from the top of the list to the bottom! Im sorry folks I would love to vote yes but I will vote NO this time.

You do know that is $15/hr more than the Mayor makes now, right?

Also, assuming you live in a house that costs $100,000 or less, this is $2 a month.

P.S. "Pubic Office" made me giggle.

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by Ed W

I think it would be great to have a campus here in Owasso, especially since it ties into the new hospitals.  That translates quickly into jobs, and unless you've been hiding under a rock somewhere, we desperately need nurses and technicians.  More jobs yield more taxpayers and more money for local government.

...and they already have nursing and tech programs within their existing building structure.  I fail to see the hardship in someone having to commute to SE, Metro, or NE to get their certification.  

A friend of mine is doing her LPN to RN "bridge" program right now.  She lives at 51st & Yale.  I'm sure there are plenty of potential nurses and techs living within a mile or so of there.  St. Francis and the Warren Medical compound is at 61st & Yale.  So why not just build another TCC campus on the east side of LaFortune Park to be convenient to St. Francis and all the potential students living around there?

Sorry Ed, I smell a waste of money on this one.  We don't need any more public college campuses to fund and operate.  If anything, we need to look at consolidating programs within the existing campuses we have.  

People keep wondering why Tulsa flounders at attracting new business.  One reason is a confusing maze of contiguous higher education in the metro area.

[PonderInc]

Hey, I know!  Let's improve and expand the campuses we already have...and then build a rail line that connects the folks in the burbs with those education centers, (and job centers) so they can get there fast and affordably!  

I wonder which investment makes more sense in the long run...constantly spreading out the infrastructure and making redundant capital invesments...or maximizing existing locations?  Hmmmm.

By the way, the NE campus sits on a huge acreage.  I bet they bought all that to allow for...uh...expansion.

[iplaw]

quote:I fail to see the hardship in someone having to commute to SE, Metro, or NE to get their certification.

I heard Obama say yesterday that he's meeting people who can't make it to job interviews because gas is so expensive.  You heartless jerk, you're out of touch with the common man and his plight.  Maybe we should buy people gas so they can commute!

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by iplaw

quote:I fail to see the hardship in someone having to commute to SE, Metro, or NE to get their certification.

I heard Obama say yesterday that he's meeting people who can't make it to job interviews because gas is so expensive.  You heartless jerk, you're out of touch with the common man and his plight.  Maybe we should buy people gas so they can commute!

Awwww gee whiz, if a Presidential candidate says it in an election year, it must be so.  I am such a egocentric putz.

Good to see you around again, IP.

[Steve]

I am glad I started this thread and to see a majority of respondents agree with me for a change.

This TCC bond issue is a bad deal for property owners and I encourage all registered voters to vote NO on this deal.

[TheArtist]

I am a little torn on this. I want to see our higher educational offerings expanded. When compared to "best places to live" etc. We spend pitifully little and have little to offer in comparison to those places. Plus you just know intuitively that education is the key to a prosperous city. BUT the question becomes, how to best spend further investments? Are they listening to the community? I really dont have a lot of info about this vote, they say what they want but dont give real reasons. I know we need more higher educational offerings,"we easily need a billion dollars worth of investments to get us anywhere near where we should be and this 75mill is a tiny amount comparatively,  but they should still explain their logic for why they are asking for these particular things and not others.

I would be glad to pay for more, just want to make sure that this "more" is the right "more", if ya get my drift. There should be better conversation with the community, we are after all the ones being asked to pay for it.

I will probably vote for it and take them for their word this time... But it is making me aware that we need to have some sort of over arching goal, a long range plan and vision that everyone can see and understand, and that most agree on. However, if this vote doesnt pass, hopefully this will make them aware that they need to approach this differently and take in more of the different considerations that people have. Not just expansion and us just trusting, but wise expansion with a long range plan that the colleges and the citizens agree on.

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by Steve

I am glad I started this thread and to see a majority of respondents agree with me for a change.

This TCC bond issue is a bad deal for property owners and I encourage all registered voters to vote NO on this deal.

Notice the Wall-to-Wall slick TV ads on all local cable stations promoting the Vote Yes tax campaign?

I suspect the Cox Cable Coterie is contributing IN-KIND TV time to the Vote Yes campaign.  They've done it many times before to help pass local Tax-and-Spend schemes.

Your monthly Cox Cable premiums at work.

I've also received 3 slick, multi-color Vote Yes brochures in the mail in the past few weeks.
All featuring smiling pictures of allegedly smiling students.

I even received one last week with smiling Tulsa Firemen.

Everyone's smiling.

Why aren't I smiling, too?

And, I've heard of live telephone solicitors calling Tulsa County voters for a Yes Vote.

Wonder how much the Vote Yes Tax Vampires are spending on their Tax-and-Spend campaign?

MUST be Lots.

Funny how there are campaign limits on individual political candidates, but NO CONTRIBUTION LIMITS on "non-partisan" Tax campaigns in Oklahoma?

Welcome to our Banana Republic!  Our local Banana Republic rigs the deck against you here from the day you are born, every day you breathe, until you take your last breath.

The local ruling Oligarcha Familias just want to keep the tax dollars flowing to line their own pockets.  

In order to build upon their Third Fortunes.

They Need to Feed their Greed.

Of course, we won't see the Vote Yes campaign donor list for this PAC until long after the election is over.  The Lorton's World frequently forgets to publish this Tax PAC Contributions and Expenditures reports.

I suspect the Vote YES TCC Taxes campaign is funded, as is their SOP, with contributions from the major local construction companies (Manhattan/Rooneys and Flintco/Flints?), and their connected cronies who divide up the sub-contracting, bond underwriting (F&M/Lortons and BOK/Kaiser?), bond attorneys (Riggs, Abney, Neal, Turpen, Orbison et al?), accounting firms, and architects and engineers (Benham and Matrix?).

Then, they are allowed to recover their campaign contributions by Sole-Source "bidding" and off-market pricing for services, like BOND UNDERWRITING Fees, Bond Agent fees, and Bond Attorneys.  

Don't expect competitive bidding at the County.  

Nada.

It's the Cabal's favorite local honey pot, next to the City of Tulsa and that big, fat Tax honeypot called the Department of Public Werkes, as well as the various city "Authorities" including those big, juicy Tax honeypots called TAIT, TDA, and TMUA.

What a conscience-less tax-payer fleecing racket.

[:O]

[RecycleMichael]

I was going to vote no. The $76 million dollars it will raise is almost the same amount of money we could use to build a new baseball stadium and hotels for downtown. I thought that four campuses was enough and didn't feel they needed a new one in Owasso when the Northest campus is 6 miles from their downtown. The personal impact to my property taxes is going to be over ten dollars a month.

Then I read that friendly bear was against it because it was some conspiracy by the ruling families and it had something to do with bananas and vampires.

I like rulers, families and bananas and don't believe in vampires. So now, I am for it.

[Renaissance]

quote:Originally posted by RecycleMichael

I was going to vote no. The $76 million dollars it will raise is almost the same amount of money we could use to build a new baseball stadium and hotels for downtown. I thought that four campuses was enough and didn't feel they needed a new one in Owasso when the Northest campus is 6 miles from their downtown. The personal impact to my property taxes is going to be over ten dollars a month.

Then I read that friendly bear was against it because it was some conspiracy by the ruling families and it had something to do with bananas and vampires.

I like rulers, families and bananas and don't believe in vampires. So now, I am for it.

Just block his posts.  He's sociopathic and has never brightened my day, so I e-ignore him.

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by Floyd

quote:Originally posted by RecycleMichael

I was going to vote no. The $76 million dollars it will raise is almost the same amount of money we could use to build a new baseball stadium and hotels for downtown. I thought that four campuses was enough and didn't feel they needed a new one in Owasso when the Northest campus is 6 miles from their downtown. The personal impact to my property taxes is going to be over ten dollars a month.

Then I read that friendly bear was against it because it was some conspiracy by the ruling families and it had something to do with bananas and vampires.

I like rulers, families and bananas and don't believe in vampires. So now, I am for it.

Just block his posts.  He's sociopathic and has never brightened my day, so I e-ignore him.

I'm just a dadgummed optimist. Someday he will directly answer someone's questions and I want to be there on that day.

[PonderInc]

Michael Bates talked about this issue in his column in the UTW. http://www.urbantulsa.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A21057

I thought this was an interesting point:

"TCC is one of only three community colleges supported by local property taxes. The other two, Rose State College in Midwest City and Oklahoma City Community College, are both in Oklahoma County.

"TCC taxpayers nearly match the state's contribution to TCC's annual budget -- $31 million in local property taxes to $37 million in state appropriations.

"Oklahoma County patrons, as usual, get off easy: The ratio of local support to state appropriation is only 12% for OCCC and 7% for Rose State. Tulsa always seems to pay for what Oklahoma City gets cheap or for free."

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by PonderInc

Michael Bates talked about this issue in his column in the UTW. http://www.urbantulsa.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A21057

I thought this was an interesting point:

"TCC is one of only three community colleges supported by local property taxes. The other two, Rose State College in Midwest City and Oklahoma City Community College, are both in Oklahoma County.

"TCC taxpayers nearly match the state's contribution to TCC's annual budget -- $31 million in local property taxes to $37 million in state appropriations.

"Oklahoma County patrons, as usual, get off easy: The ratio of local support to state appropriation is only 12% for OCCC and 7% for Rose State. Tulsa always seems to pay for what Oklahoma City gets cheap or for free."

Why?

Because, it's the Tulsa PREMIUM!

That's why.

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by RecycleMichael

I was going to vote no. The $76 million dollars it will raise is almost the same amount of money we could use to build a new baseball stadium and hotels for downtown. I thought that four campuses was enough and didn't feel they needed a new one in Owasso when the Northest campus is 6 miles from their downtown. The personal impact to my property taxes is going to be over ten dollars a month.

Then I read that friendly bear was against it because it was some conspiracy by the ruling families and it had something to do with bananas and vampires.

I like rulers, families and bananas and don't believe in vampires. So now, I am for it.

It's heartening to know that I have so much influence with a Forum poster.

Thanks!