City Furloughs

[Hoss]

Been a victim of a crime lately?

Gweed-Spooner.

[custosnox]

Been a victim of a crime lately?

As a matter of a fact, yes.

[MH2010]

And ur against more public safety?  I guess you like being the victim of a crime.

[nathanm]

And ur against more public safety?  I guess you like being the victim of a crime.

The problem isn't a lack of police officers. The problem is people who can't handle their drugs and people who are stealing because they're desperate. Property and drug crimes make up the majority of crime.

There are better ways of handling those issues than more police. Now, if we're down to the point where staffing levels are putting officers at risk due to lack of backup during dangerous situations, that's a problem that needs solving. I haven't read anything indicating that to be the case, though.

Morons like cutosnox's assailant aren't deterred by police, unless perhaps they happen to be standing nearby at the moment. I don't think anybody wants to hire enough police to have them literally standing on every corner and every 50 feet in between. In addition to being cost prohibitive, it would be quite aggravating to walk down the sidewalk.

[MH2010]

Lack of police officers is a major problem.  Here you go.

Police review recommends increase in positions

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20080812_11_A9_CUTLIN543872&archive=yes

Police review recommends increase in positions

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20080925_11_A9_hThePo484976&archive=yes

More cops, say councilors

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20081120_11_A9_hCitin752655&archive=yes

Manpower boost leads to increased arrests

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=14&articleid=20090311_14_0_Aboost993031&archive=yes


Extra officers lead to more arrests

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20090312_11_A9_Aboost807690&archive=yes

[RecycleMichael]

I think many city departments are working below recommended staffing levels. We don't have enough money to fix the streets, staff the parks, etc.

I don't support treating one city department of employees any differently than any other.

[MH2010]

Not a problem until you have to call 911 to save yourself or your family and no one is available.  Maybe someone from the mayor's office can come save you.

The reality of the situation is that we are different.

Just FYI,

NewsChannel 8Pulse Poll
Should police and fire departments be a part of the Mayor's four-day furlough plan? 

Yes        19%
No        81%

Total: 6313 votes

[custosnox]

The problem isn't a lack of police officers. The problem is people who can't handle their drugs and people who are stealing because they're desperate. Property and drug crimes make up the majority of crime.

There are better ways of handling those issues than more police. Now, if we're down to the point where staffing levels are putting officers at risk due to lack of backup during dangerous situations, that's a problem that needs solving. I haven't read anything indicating that to be the case, though.

Morons like cutosnox's assailant aren't deterred by police, unless perhaps they happen to be standing nearby at the moment. I don't think anybody wants to hire enough police to have them literally standing on every corner and every 50 feet in between. In addition to being cost prohibitive, it would be quite aggravating to walk down the sidewalk.

The fact that they took an hour to get there is rather disturbing.  I even called back at one point and told them that this guy was still in the area and coming over to where I was parked trying to start crap up again.  This slow response in this type of situation is does not tell me that we need to cut the amount of officers on the street.  I can understand the time for response if there wasn't an immediate danger (car stereo got stolen), even if it is frustrating then. 

[patric]

The problem isn't a lack of police officers.

Having lived across the street from a TPD that spent most of his day at home with his car running in his driveway, im not convinced we make the best use of the resources we have.

In the past, when we have hired more police than we have assignments to fill, you end up seeing more and more funneled into special projects like Vice Squad (Street Crimes) or elite units that ultimately spend their time on high-profile, low-effectiveness stunts trying to justify their employment.

[MH2010]

The city of Tulsa has never hired more officers than we have assignments to fill.  Like the vice unit or street crimes? You do realize that when Tulsa police had their first manpower shortage, the first thing the administration did was disband the street crimes units.  This was the same year that Tulsa had a record homicide rate and violent crime also shot up thru the roof.

High profile, low effectiveness?  I guess you mean the vice unit.  Talk to the people who live at 11th and Rockford, St. Louis, Trenton, Troost and Quincy.  Ask them how they liked having prostitutes picking up johns in front of their houses. How they liked syringes and crack pipes in their frontyards before the vice unit moved them out.  It's a constant battle but life is better down there for now. 

You can also ask the businesses along Admiral between Sheridan and Mingo how they liked the prostitutes walking up and down the street yelling at their customers to see if they had $20.00 for a sex act.  Because of street crime units and the vice unit they have moved also.

As far as your "neighbor".  Did you call internal affairs and give them the car number?  Did you ask the officer what he was doing?  Did you do anything to remedy the situation?  I know I wanna know who he is because if he is doing that , then he is cheating every other officer on the force because we have to pick up his slack.

[patric]

Did you ask the officer what he was doing?

Isnt that called "obstructing a police officer"?
I might as well just post my tag number and photo up on the squadroom wall....

[custosnox]

Having lived across the street from a TPD that spent most of his day at home with his car running in his driveway, im not convinced we make the best use of the resources we have.

In the past, when we have hired more police than we have assignments to fill, you end up seeing more and more funneled into special projects like Vice Squad (Street Crimes) or elite units that ultimately spend their time on high-profile, low-effectiveness stunts trying to justify their employment.

I never understood why they leave their cars running, but what I'm getting from this is either he is sitting at home while on duty, or he is leaving his car running when he is off duty.  In either case it should have been reported long ago if it has been ongoing.

[nathanm]

Lack of police officers is a major problem.  Here you go.

Police review recommends increase in positions

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20080812_11_A9_CUTLIN543872&archive=yes

Police review recommends increase in positions

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20080925_11_A9_hThePo484976&archive=yes

More cops, say councilors

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20081120_11_A9_hCitin752655&archive=yes

Manpower boost leads to increased arrests

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=14&articleid=20090311_14_0_Aboost993031&archive=yes


Extra officers lead to more arrests

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20090312_11_A9_Aboost807690&archive=yes

Of course police officers want more officers on the street. Especially the union.

So do elected officials, as it's the best way to appear "tough on crime," which almost everybody supports. Rehab, mental health programs and economic development are much riskier politically.

And lastly, increased arrests beyond a certain point have little to do with prevention of most crime. The question is whether the arrests are quality. Taking actual threats off the street, like the repeat violent offenders, and not the neighborhood pot dealer.

Also, moving the problem is not solving the problem.

IMO, if we're going to have more officers, we should have more officers patrolling. Perhaps even on foot or on a bike, not in some special unit where they make more headlines but do less good. Politics at work again.

[patric]

I never understood why they leave their cars running, but what I'm getting from this is either he is sitting at home while on duty, or he is leaving his car running when he is off duty.  In either case it should have been reported long ago if it has been ongoing.

Sorry I was a little terse but I had just watched CNN show the YouTube video of the 14-year-old choked out by police in Toledo, so it sort of set the tone.

I know there are legitimate reasons for leaving a police car running, such as when an officer stops by his house to get something and needs to keep the electronics charged/cool/warm but this guy would sit inside day after day with his car running, and only leave for short trips once or twice a day.  At the time I lived there, he had goats in his backyard  so I have no clue as to what deal he had going. 
As far as that being unfair to other cops, I dont know how a fellow officer could be doing that for years and they NOT know.

[MH2010]

That officer was able to sit at home and keep his car running because no one told anyone at the police department.

You do realize that specialty units are the ones that make the "quality" arrests. They are the ones that arrest the repeat offenders not the local idiot that is driving down the street smoking a joint or the guy that decides to break the law for the first time.

Police to continue boost to detective division

By NICOLE MARSHALL World Staff Writer
Published: 4/10/2009  6:32 PM
Last Modified: 4/24/2009  3:28 PM


A boost in manpower at the Tulsa Police Department's Detective Division has been extended by 30 days after officers arrested 112 repeat offenders in the past two months.

Extra officers were assigned in February to work with the warrants squad to target career criminals who are repeatedly suspected of "Part One" crimes, a national classification that includes homicide, rape, robbery, burglary, auto theft, larceny and assault.

The 112 people jailed in the first 60 days of the initiative were arrested in connection with crimes that include robbery, burglary, homicide, rape and manufacturing or trafficking controlled drugs, Deputy Chief Mark McCrory said.

"Those people had been arrested 277 times within the last three to five years on Part One crimes, which signifies to us that they are out there actively committing crimes," McCrory said.

Many of those arrested also had also been convicted of crimes within the last three to five years.

The officers who have been temporarily assigned to the effort also are working closely with the robbery, burglary and homicide units.

McCrory said that according to detectives, those arrested in the initiative by the warrants officers were suspected in up to 2,100 Part One crimes, but there is not enough evidence to arrest them in all of the cases.

"With some of people who we arrested, we know they have done a couple hundred residential burglaries, but knowing someone has committed a crime and having someone as suspect does not always mean we have enough evidence to prosecute," McCrory said.

Sgt. Luke Sherman, who supervises the officers involved in the initiative, said they have made several significant arrests of repeat offenders.

For example, on March 26, the officers arrested Michael Clinton, 31. Clinton has been charged with several felonies, including two counts of burglary, one count of possessing a firearm and four counts of possessing stolen property. He is being held on more than $800,000 bail, jail records show. Burglary detectives believe that Clinton is suspected of more than 200 burglaries.

On April 1, they arrested the William Cody Lee, 24, after working with narcotics officers and following him throughout the day as he allegedly bought materials and chemicals to make a meth lab. There also allegedly were two guns in the car when he was arrested.

Lee has been charged with several burglary, drug and possession of stolen property counts and is suspected of hundreds of burglaries.

Sherman also said one of the group's biggest captures was Patrick Wayne Manning, 44, on March 9. Manning is charged with two bank robberies and is suspected in two others.

McCrory said police are working with a liaison from Tulsa County District Attorney Tim Harris' office to file cases and get higher bails set for the repeat offenders. They also have been working with the U.S. Marshals Service and the Probation and Parole Office.

"We have been told by some patrol officers that it seems like it is freeing them up to focus on other things," McCrory said