Downtown stadium in the East End....

[TulsaRufnex]

I drifted from the stadium in particular to include a more general acceptance of differing ideas for the downtown area. However, I don't think a multi use stadium downtown, especially in the area just north of 6th should be considered unfeasible. Its unfeasible given the constraints that were offered by the county.

Just to clarify.... the city has traditionally been supportive of the prospects for a stadium (baseball or soccer) in the East Village/East End.
The constraints offered by the county were regarding the prospects of pro soccer being played at the fairgrounds.

[TulsaRufnex]

The one I am afraid of, the one that the clown referenced is that damn two story Wal-Mart with a parking garage proposal that was thankfully killed back in '07 when the economy started to go south. I would not be shocked to hear that plan got dusted off.

I hope the clown is talking out his a$$ again, but I'm not sure.

The opening of an urban two-story Wal-Mart would save me trips to the perpetually busy Wal-Mart in Sand Springs.
Maybe if the big box were a Target? or Jamie Jamison's fav?.... Tesco?....  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesco

[AquaMan]

Population is not declining and Gen Y is bigger than the boomers

Can't find anything to support those statements. Wiki references a graph that shows not only a larger time span for Boomers and a much higher birth rate than the Y gen but also shows that the birth rate has trended downwards since 1962. Its latest point was 2009 which showed a birth rate of about 1/3 less than the lowest point of the baby boom generation.

Other stats also show that the Boomers are still accounting for huge disparities in buying power in relation to the following generations (Baby Boomers control over 80% of personal financial assets and more than 50% of discretionary spending power. They are responsible for more than half of all consumer spending, buy 77% of all prescription drugs, 61% of OTC medication and 80% of all leisure travel.) However, the Y gen is the fastest growing in purchasing power being at the peak of their careers.

Given those figures it isn't hard to understand why now, as they start to retire, suffer age discrimination in the workplace and begin to cash in investments, that the economy is suffering even more than the usual business cycle might have predicted. (Of course, that would be Obama's fault according to the locals).

[DTowner]

Let me put it a different way that is based on observation. My neighbor's son just graduated from TU and got a job right in the downtown area. Ground zero. He and his fiance rented space in the nearby hypo-dermic needle less than a mile away. He is at best 24. It makes sense for them to live there and enjoy downtown. My son did the same thing in OKC when he graduated. Moved to a chic apartment complex downtown, partied there, was employed there, met the woman of his dreams there, married and ....moved to a nearby chic neighborhood of old homes. Fixed the house up, wife got pregnant and they moved to a better school district halfway between Norman and downtown OKC where their respective jobs are. That will probably lead to a decade of suburban living. I expect my neighbor's kid to follow a similar path.  I bet you followed a similar path.

Isn't the first part of this statement exactly what Tulsa's been missing for several decades - a vibrant downtown that can help keep its young people here and attract more?

Downtown living will never appeal to everyone and yes, many of those young hipsters attracted to it now may cast an eye to near neighborhoods, midtown or even (shutter) out south once they start popping out little hipsters of their own.  If we are vibrant and growing economically and in populations, that will take care of itself.

[Conan71]

Isn't the first part of this statement exactly what Tulsa's been missing for several decades - a vibrant downtown that can help keep its young people here and attract more?

Downtown living will never appeal to everyone and yes, many of those young hipsters attracted to it now may cast an eye to near neighborhoods, midtown or even (shutter) out south once they start popping out little hipsters of their own.  If we are vibrant and growing economically and in populations, that will take care of itself.

That was the exact point I was trying to make a post or two back.  So what if they grow up and move to the suburbs?  There will be another young hipster to move into the vacated property downtown.

[dsjeffries]

Isn't the first part of this statement exactly what Tulsa's been missing for several decades - a vibrant downtown that can help keep its young people here and attract more?

Downtown living will never appeal to everyone and yes, many of those young hipsters attracted to it now may cast an eye to near neighborhoods, midtown or even (shutter) out south once they start popping out little hipsters of their own.  If we are vibrant and growing economically and in populations, that will take care of itself.

I think it's also important to point out that marriage doesn't mean suburbs, and that not everyone is going to or wants to get married. Are there lots in my generation putting off marriage longer than previous generations? Yes. But there are also a lot of people who never intend to get married. And in either case, there will still be people who want to live downtown, and there will still be people who want to live in the suburbs or in the country.

[AquaMan]

Well then I'm way off base. Check back in 10-20 years and we'll see whose ambling on the streets and at what time of day!

Meanwhile, consider my scenario and lay your bets. I'm surmising that no matter how vibrant downtown is, it still lacks the fundamentals that maturing young people desire and empty nesters rely on. We aren't going to be a New York or Minneapolis or San Francisco, ever. Those vibrancies keep large numbers of young people longer and even entice empty nesters with disposable income and cultured tastes. That means having a quality inner city daycare, grade school and possibly middle school nearby. That means having the same, or better, shopping and entertainment choices as the nearby midtown and outlying burbs. I don't see those things on the horizon in downtown Tulsa. I do see them extant or emerging in the nearby older burbs. The huge dominance of churches downtown seems to be indicative of the confusion as to just what is going on down here. They all have a strong youth slant to them with gymnasiums, scouting programs, child care and outreach, yet, few of them seem to live nearby.

I have always felt that downtown is too busy with unsubstantiated concepts of who will actually be drawn there and why. Without a serious change in transportation (trolleys, circulators, whatever), a major attraction (identified with our city alone) and a large player like Target, Costco, etc. to provide the same convenience as outlying areas where these kids grew up you will find them migrating outward. Then they'll be visiting the bars, restaurants, baseball and theatre on Friday/Saturday night that are only available downtown and church on Sunday, then back out to the mini-burbs or suburbs.

That is not necessarily a bad thing. What I'm saying is this a natural progression and fighting it isn't wise. We aren't going to draw the masses that would make the vibrancy of the 1950's by providing more housing unless its very affordable. Downtown has some unique retailers, restaurants and entertainment that will always be a draw. With the downtown as a hub, strongly connected to mini-cbd's surrounding it they both are more secure.