Simon Outlet Mall 61st & Hwy 75

[cannon_fodder]

While Conan and my opinions generally don't jive on this subject, I do have to agree that I don't see a quality of life improvement for the surrounding areas. This is about increasing sales tax dollars in the Tulsa city limits. Rarely do any major retail centers improve anything for the neighbors except decrease loneliness.

An outlet mall will be built in the next 18 months in the Tulsa metro. A. ONE. Singular.

That outlet mall will be one of three announced:
They all add jobs. They will all add the same shopping. No one walks to an outlet mall, so location in the metro isn't that important, so we have to try and differentiate...

1) Turkey Mountain Location -
Positives:
In the City of Tulsa (for sales tax revenue)
Private Land Transaction
Not next to a rich neighborhood (there are plenty of neighbors, we just don't have to care because most are public housing)
Just off the highway


Negatives:
Needs major road widening of 61st, access from Tulsa Hills (new road), major interchange work from Hwy 75 as well as a possible access road along 75. ($50 mil in public funds?)
Major site overhaul needed, total elevation change is massive
Not along an interstate highway
Land is improperly zoned
Will encroach on land currently utilized as public park land (not TAKING park land)
Not best use of land


2) Cherokee Property -
Positives:
Private Land Transaction
Not next to a rich neighborhood
Just off the highway
No rezoning required
Easy Dirt Work
Not next to public park
Synergy with Cherokee Casino
Area roads recently improved for traffic flow

Negatives:
NOT in Tulsa, so no tax revenue (it IS in Catoosa, not sovereign tribal land, so they will pay taxes)


3) East Tulsa  Mall (near I44/244 merger)
Positives:
Private Land Transactions
In Tulsa
No major roadwork needed
No rezoning required
No major earth works
No impact ion public parks
No nearby housing impact
Just off an interstate

Negatives:
Longer time frame
Less well-known developer (to me anyway)

- - -

One of those will be built. Only one. I don't give two damns about an outlet mall and will probably never go to it. I do care about quality of life, tax revenue, and best use of resources. I'd prefer the thing be in Tulsa, but other than wanting to get tax revenue, I can't think of a reason why the Turkey Mountain location makes sense. I don't want to sell out what is likely millions (tens of millions?) in subsidies to utilize a piece of property for an outlet mall when it could have better uses and it doesn't make sense for all the other reasons.

I can't rationalize that location.

[sgrizzle]

Note on #3, they are looking at around the eastern city limit. Possible issue if they slide a little bit right.

[Conan71]

Other issue with site #3 is it will take a lot of site work to remediate a flood plane.  It was also related to me today that it contains a lot of rock.  I can't imagine it's got more rock issues than site #1...talk about moving a mountain!

[Conan71]

Simon submitted their application to INCOG yesterday.  It will go before the Planning Review Committee on Feb. 19 and before the TMAPC on March 18.

[ZYX]

Are the plans publicly available yet?

[Conan71]

Are the plans publicly available yet?

I'm in the process of finding out.

[ZYX]

Great, thanks.

[ZYX]

Turkey Mountain was as busy as I've ever seen it today. The parking lot was overflowing and there were people parked up and down elwood, in the neighborhood across the street and along 61st street.

We really can't afford to lose any of the trails. They're getting crowded as it is.

[Conan71]

Turkey Mountain was as busy as I've ever seen it today. The parking lot was overflowing and there were people parked up and down elwood, in the neighborhood across the street and along 61st street.

We really can't afford to lose any of the trails. They're getting crowded as it is.

"I was out there, I was the guy on the mountain bike, you know on that rocky trail with a bunch of oak trees."

Very busy day out there.  There's a bigger demand for urban wilderness than we can serve as it is.  I spent most of my time riding the capillary trails off the blue trail then went further west.  Met cannon_fodder out there for his second MTB ride ever.  He's a natural.

In order to miss the traffic congestion, I've taken to parking at my office on west 41st St. and riding up to the trailhead on weekends.  Gives you a nice three mile warm up.

[RecycleMichael]

My family went out there today to go hiking. They said they had to park way down the street because of the crowds.

[shavethewhales]

I knew it would be packed out so I didn't even try to go to that side today. I was running along the other side of the river and even that area was pretty busy today. It'll certainly get much worse for TM when the entire back portion becomes less desirable for biking/riding. It's already annoying to constantly have to stop and jump out of the way.

[SXSW]

Turkey Mountain was as busy as I've ever seen it today. The parking lot was overflowing and there were people parked up and down elwood, in the neighborhood across the street and along 61st street.

We really can't afford to lose any of the trails. They're getting crowded as it is.

Agree about TM.  Chandler is a good alternative but not quite as convenient.  If it was expanded on the private land to the west along and south of Avery Dr it could be just as if not more popular than Turkey because it would be much larger with more varied terrain.  TCC West would make a natural south trailhead with its existing parking lots on 41st.

[ZYX]

The riverside trails were also pretty crowded today from what I saw. Speaking of, the bike/ped trails need to be expanded as far as possible as quickly as possible. Tulsans have proven that (at least when it's warm out) the trails will be used. If new development actually made an effort to integrate with the them, they could really become a viable means of practical transportation as well. Sort of a "bike highway."

As far as Turkey Mountain goes, although parking was impossible and the trails were busier than normal, I'm thrilled to see people being active and interacting with nature. We could all use a little more of that.

[ZYX]

In order to miss the traffic congestion, I've taken to parking at my office on west 41st St. and riding up to the trailhead on weekends.  Gives you a nice three mile warm up.

I'd do that if I had a mountain bike. Might have to find a friend here soon with an extra one to go riding with. A road bike isn't gonna take on TM too well.

[heironymouspasparagus]

I'd do that if I had a mountain bike. Might have to find a friend here soon with an extra one to go riding with. A road bike isn't gonna take on TM too well.

They sell those in stores.... I bet that at any given time, there are at least dozens for sale in various stores across the city...!!


Sorry....early Mon morning, and I just couldn't resist...