Dallas

[sauerkraut]

Alot of the times it all comes out in the wash, and it's pretty much even. Texas would have lower heating bills than Tulsa, Texas has no sales tax on food items, Oklahoma taxes all food items. Oklahoma's income tax is pretty high. I understand that Nashville, TN. is a good place to live They have low prop. taxes and no state income tax. The state of Oregon has high income tax rates, but no sales taxes at all. So,If you'd live in Vancover Wash.- across the river from Portland Oregon- you'd have the best of both worlds. The state of Wash. has no income taxes and oregon has no sales taxes, so you just live & work in washington, and shop in oregon. You'd pay no income taxes and no sales taxes.[]

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by TulsaFan-inTexas

Utilities are pretty high. My house is electric and gas (gas for hot water/heater). The average electric gas bills for the summer and winter are (for me, wife, daughter):

Summer
Electricity: $180
Gas: $40

Winter
Electricity: 90
Gas: 90

So, either way you cut it, I run about 200 dollars a month in utilities. And my bills are actually pretty low. Many of the larger houses in the area run 500 and 600 dollar electric bills in the summer. My neighbors' say their electric bill in the summer is more like 300 dollars a month, and it's just two people. Our house is pretty well insulated.

The rates per kwh are at least 20% higher in texas following electric deregulation. Individual results vary, of course.

[cannon_fodder]

of course, in the year following "deregulation"  (utilities are insanely regulated for being deregulated, but I know what you refer to) the consumption of electricity in Texas expanded exponentially as the industrial sectors as well as the population has boomed in the last 20 years.  As this boom went on, the DOE and EPA as well as hippies have done well in preventing supply from keeping up with demand.

Therefor, prices go up to help stymie demand.  The price of electricity is still regulated to the penny.

[tulsa1603]

quote:Originally posted by doren50

The low Oklahoma tax argument is bunk! My brother in law is a developer in Dallas and I have seen the numbers. For someone with $100,000 in income and a $350,000 home the Dallas property tax number is less than the SUM of the Oklahoma State Income Tax and the Tulsa property tax.

Depends on your income/housing situation.  I have a friend who is lucky enough to have enough cash to buy a house outright worth $350,000.  His taxes eat him alive, approximately $7,000 a year, even though he only makes $50k a year.  So he's being punished for having a nice house.  My parents dismissed Texas a place to retire for this reason, they can afford a much more expensive house than someone at their retirement income level would normally be able to, but it would be punitive due to the taxes.  If they were willing to live in a cheaper house, it might work out to their benefit.

[okcpulse]

quote:The low Oklahoma tax argument is bunk! My brother in law is a developer in Dallas and I have seen the numbers. For someone with $100,000 in income and a $350,000 home the Dallas property tax number is less than the SUM of the Oklahoma State Income Tax and the Tulsa property tax.

Don't give me that song and dance about a bunk argument.  Since I moved to Houston 15 months ago, I've discovered one thing... I'd rather file for state AND income taxes than pay gouging property taxes.  At least a get a check from Oklahoma for overpayment.

Do you get exemptions or a refund when you pay property taxes?  No.  Do you claim dependents and standard deductions on your property taxes?  No.  Oklahoma has been reducing the state income tax rate every year since 2002.  Has Texas reduced its property tax rates?  Nope.  Does Oklahoma allow its income tax rate to increase 10 percent a year?  Nope.

And Texas does tax some of its groceries.  It's on all of my Kroger receipts!  Thank you!

[sauerkraut]

I never knew Texas prop. taxes were that high. The state of Tennessee has no income taxes and they still have low prop. taxes. Texas does have better weather than Oklahoma, The Dallas/FortWorth MetroPlex has more days of warmer weather then does Oklahoma, less snow and less cold. That means alot to many people. The heating bills will be alot lower in Texas. Tulsa gets very cold in winter.Brrrrrr!

[TulsaFan-inTexas]

quote:Originally posted by okcpulse

quote:The low Oklahoma tax argument is bunk! My brother in law is a developer in Dallas and I have seen the numbers. For someone with $100,000 in income and a $350,000 home the Dallas property tax number is less than the SUM of the Oklahoma State Income Tax and the Tulsa property tax.

Don't give me that song and dance about a bunk argument.  Since I moved to Houston 15 months ago, I've discovered one thing... I'd rather file for state AND income taxes than pay gouging property taxes.  At least a get a check from Oklahoma for overpayment.

Do you get exemptions or a refund when you pay property taxes?  No.  Do you claim dependents and standard deductions on your property taxes?  No.  Oklahoma has been reducing the state income tax rate every year since 2002.  Has Texas reduced its property tax rates?  Nope.  Does Oklahoma allow its income tax rate to increase 10 percent a year?  Nope.

And Texas does tax some of its groceries.  It's on all of my Kroger receipts!  Thank you!

And to boot, the property taxes here can be increased at the whim of the county by them overvaluing your home. You can protest that, of course, but guess who you protest to? The county, of course. That's what happened with the friend of mine in Richardson (N. Dallas). His property taxes have doubled in ten years; he now pays twice what I pay (7200/yr). It's ridiculous. We'll be forced to move from here in five years if the rates keep going up. Can't afford it. And Sauerkraut, the heating bills may be less, but the cooling bills certainly aren't. Texas electric rates are among the highest in the country.

[sauerkraut]

It should be easy to figure out if the Oklahoma state income tax is worse than the Texas prop. taxes. Find out on the Oklahoma income tax table in the back of the Oklahoma tax booklet what you'd be paying in Oklahoma income taxes for your income level. If it's less than what the Texas prop. taxes are, odds are you'd be better off in Oklahoma. If it's higher you'd be better off in Texas- It'll give a ruff guess anyhoo. Such as if the tax table says you'll pay $4,000.00 in income taxes in Oklahoma at your a income level- and you pay $3,600.00 in Texas prop. taxes your still more ahead by living in Texas. Texas also has few toll roads, (All Tulsa interstate roads are toll roads).- no sales tax on foods, warmer weather. Texas would be the place to live IMO.

[TheArtist]

I wouldn't give up Tulsa's spring and fall just so I could avoid winter.  I often wonder what it would be like to not have that change of seasons like we have.  Winter may have its problems with the occasional bit of ice,snow, and cold.  But lots of great places in the world have that, plus can't snow be beautiful, isnt it nice to snuggle up under a quilt in front of a fireplace or watching a good movie, drinking hot coco?

And heck, if anything winter makes you look forward to spring and appreciate it all the more. Do you have that expectation in a place where its always warm?

Spring is here!  Everyone hits the garden stores, the river parks, woodward park and the rose gardens, the anticipation of watching things grow and flower.  I love it.  And then there is fall.  The colors, not that they are as great as some parts of the country, but the beauty of driving through those old neighborhoods with the leaves blowing through the air catching the sunlight is wonderful. Pulling out the sweaters, perhaps dressing up a bit and going shopping for the holidays at Utica Square.

Winter here may be about 1 month longer than I would like lol, but thats a great time to head on that vacation to Florida or elsewhere, and if you know what to expect you just learn to do different things according to the season and look forward to and appreciate each one for what it is. When your indoors for the winter, read or write that novel you have always wanted to do, or a painting, or other hobby, work on the inside of your house, have friends over for game night and food. Then when spring comes, get out there and really enjoy every moment of it with gusto.


We have real traditional holidays that are far more likely to look and feel like they are suposed to, with the exception of white Christmases, those are rare lol,  flowers at Easter, hot forth of July's, fall colors and temps for Thanksgiving and Halloween.


I often wonder what it would be like to not have real seasons that so surely mark the passage of time, where every month and year just blurred together one after the other with no real difference.  To each his own I guess.

[TulsaFan-inTexas]

I'm with you Artist. Not that the seasons in Fort Worth are nondescript as they are places such as Florida or the Gulf coast, but I like some variety throughout the year.

Regardless if I get too cold once in awhile, a virtual "groundhog day" of weather throughout the year would be very, very boring.

I couldn't hack it up in Ohio where Sauerkraut is though! Tulsa has pretty much the perfect mix of seasons for me.

[sauerkraut]

I would think the perfect weather is in places like Phoenix, AZ and Las Vegas. I go there offten and I just love it. Blue skys and mild temps, sometimes it stays around 85 degrees overnight. The summers are great The days can get up over 100 degrees with no clouds in the sky. Super nice. Phoenix is one of the fastest growing cities in the nation. It can get cold in winter but lucky the cold does not last long. Crime is high in Phoenix, wages are low.,  As for Texas I think D/FW weather beats Tulsa weather. I just do not like cold seasons at all.. I found a 2005 Oklahoma income tax booklet it said for filing single and earning $50,000 your income tax is $4,200.00 -For married it's $3800.00. No doubt they have raised the rates since then. That's alot of money.

[RecycleMichael]

Your numbers are way off.

According to this year's tax form, A person making $50,000 (after the many deductions allowed) would pay $2,825 filing single and $2,569 if filing married.

http://www.tax.ok.gov/it2006/511-PKT-06.pdf

Oklahoma also voted this past year to lower state income tax to 4.75% from 5.25% over a phased number of years.

[TulsaFan-inTexas]

Taking those last numbers into consideration, I would basically be about where I am right now. No state tax and high property taxes in Texas, or a state tax with lower property taxes in Oklahoma.  

I often wonder why all of these relocation calculators that are in abundance on the Internet don't take into consideration property taxes and state taxes (or the lack of) in their formulas.

Essentially all they look at are home costs and other factors, such as food and medical costs. I realize you might have to plug in a few numbers, but those two variables alone can make a lot of difference, although not in my case.

And by the way, the bankrate.com cost of living calculator says that "total energy costs" are more in Tulsa than in Texas where we have some of the highest electric rates in the country? I don't trust those numbers..

Sauerkraut, we need to take up a fund of some sort and get you out of the cold. Anyone that likes 100+ temps with lows of 85 at night doesn't belong up in Ohio!   []

[sauerkraut]

quote:Originally posted by recyclemichael

Your numbers are way off.

According to this year's tax form, A person making $50,000 (after the many deductions allowed) would pay $2,825 filing single and $2,569 if filing married.

http://www.tax.ok.gov/it2006/511-PKT-06.pdf

Oklahoma also voted this past year to lower state income tax to 4.75% from 5.25% over a phased number of years.

OK that's good news. Most of the time taxes up,-not down. I was going by the tax table in back of the 2005 Oklahoma full-year resident income tax booklet. The tax tables stop at $50,000. Those numbers that I posted came right from the booklet.

[sauerkraut]

I'm stuck in Ohio due to my job. I make alot of money currently. I am sorry I left Texas in 1990 after my divorce. If I had to do it over I'd have stayed. Anyhoo, I do plan to retire in Phoenix, or Las Vegas. From the "Places Rated Almanac" it says that Dallas has 40 days a year with temps below 32 degrees, and 100 days a year of temps 90 and above with 138 clear days and 90 partly cloudy....Tulsa is alot colder they have 80 days of temps 32 and below and only 70 days with 90 and above.... Austin/San Marcos TX has 110 days above 90 degrees and  21 days below 32.... San Antonio has 111 days with temps of 90 & above and 21 days days below 32 degrees. Not much better than Dallas.... Phoenix beats them all, in Phoenix they have 170 days a year of temps above 90 and only 10 days with temps below 32.. Climate is not everything but it does play a big part on lifestyle and where to move to. It's no wonder Phoenix is the fastest growing city in the USA! But you also need a job and crime rates play a part too.