Not A Hate Crime?

[BriefRighter]

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectID=11&articleID=20080718_11_A1_hGAYCO522310

I can't believe that this is not being treated as a hate crime, even though it is not specifically enumerated as a hate crime in state statutes.  When I started practicing law in Tulsa in 2000, fresh out of law school, I saw this kind of discrimination occurring.  In Dallas, where I practice now, there are non-discrimination laws on the books that include sexual orientation.

This is the same thing as cross burnings in the South from the 50's.  My concern is, how many people will be victimized before this is considered a hate crime by the legislature.  I realize that it is actionable as vandalism/criminal mischief.  However, the penalties for that crime are not stiff enough to be a deterrent.

Down here, in Arlington, a home was defaced with the words, "Die N----r."  It was only after the culprit attacked the homeowner, and savagely beat her, that the culprit was detained. http://www.nbc5i.com/news/14967011/detail.html

The culprit was detained and charged not only with vandalism and criminal mischief, but also with a hate crime.  Are the homeowner's in the Oklahoma case any less apprehensive?

[waterboy]

Geez. It was like a time warp to 1961. Pretty sure I saw that kind of stuff around here in the sixties. What is happening to our city?

[OUGrad05]

It makes you wonder doesn't it...


However, on a slightly different note I find the entire notion of a hate crime to be ridiculous.  Either the act is illegal or its not and "hate crime" is merely a term thought up by some overzealous lawyer in DC in an attempt to look like a hero for "doing something".  If you burn someone's house down, inflict bodily harm or destroy someone's property regardless of whether or not its white on black, black on white, white on white, etc etc etc, the punishment should be the same.

[patric]

quote:Originally posted by OUGrad05

I find the entire notion of a hate crime to be ridiculous.  Either the act is illegal or its not and "hate crime" is merely a term thought up by some overzealous lawyer in DC in an attempt to look like a hero for "doing something".  If you burn someone's house down, inflict bodily harm or destroy someone's property regardless of whether or not its white on black, black on white, white on white, etc etc etc, the punishment should be the same.

+1.  Political pandering.

Now, when I see the guys vehicle that someone set afire and burned to a crisp I would think they would call it Arson.
But for some reason, it was classified as only "vandalism".
In that respect, I could see discrimination.

[TheArtist]

I go back and forth on the "hate crime" thing. Havent really thought about it much though. But when they were describing this as an act of vandalism and saying it should be treated like any other act of vandalism... Usually it seems that if a business or car is vandalized its not because they hate you, its just that you got unlucky and happened to end up being the victim. They may not know you or know anything about you or even care.

In this instance it seems they are specifically targeting the person, and, for lack of a better word, hate them.

If you were at the mall and someone bumps into you on accident you feel a certain way.

If you were at the mall and someone bumps into you on purpose, was just going down the mall bumping into whoever to get a reaction and being an arse, not specifically targeting you in particular,,,, you feel differently.

However, if you were at the mall and a person saw you, had perhaps followed you to the mall, specifically targeted you, and you knew the person hated you, and they bump into you in a threatening manner,,, you feel differently still.  

Each instance is the exact same thing, just someone bumping into you and should be felt the same, reacted to and thought of the same. Or is it?



If someone vandalized my car. I wouldn't be happy about it, but would realize that its likely that it was just a random event, could have been anyones car, happened to be mine this time. However it feels very differently if someone is intentionally targeting you in a threatening manner, they have a feeling of malice and hate towards you. Thus the "hate" in hate crime. It wasnt just vandalism.

But, even here a "hate crime" if you want to say such a category exists, should exist for everyone, straight, gay, black, white, Jew, etc.

[MDepr2007]

Gotta love how being gay ends up being lined up with race and religion as being equal somehow[]

My bet on the story is an ex girlfriend that can't take the fact she lost out to another guy.

[cannon_fodder]

Don't you know anything?  Only POPULAR groups can be the victim of hate crimes.  White people can't.  Gay's can't.  So there is NO WAY a white gay couple could be.  []

Hate crime.  I understand the concept but how stupid.  Did you spray paint my car because you like me?

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

Don't you know anything?  Only POPULAR groups can be the victim of hate crimes.  White people can't.  Gay's can't.  So there is NO WAY a white gay couple could be.  []

Hate crime.  I understand the concept but how stupid.  Did you spray paint my car because you like me?

the reason they clamor for hate crime is because they can get the FBI involved.

I think terming everything hate crime is stupid.

But I do have to commend the brazenness of the criminal in this case.  That is a trait rarely seen in tulsa today.  "i'll be back"  that's classic.

and congratulations to Tulsa world for bringing attention to this, no that all the rednecks know I'm sure more gays will start getting torched.

[tim huntzinger]

I agree with the victim that if these scumbags are willing to do what they did it really is just a matter of time before their action escalates.  Arson is a deadly crime and everything that can be thrown at the case needs to be thrown at it because I doubt this is the first or last time the perps commit a crime of this sort.

Absolutely that is a hate crime, too bad the TPD and/or the DA just cannot get it together.

[sauerkraut]

I'm against all hate crime laws. There is no need for that. A crime is a crime and is covered under current laws. No crime is one of love, all crimes are hate. A criminal does not break into a house and steal that persons belongings out of love. A vandal does not do his deed because he's kind hearted and cares, he does it to be mean. -or so it seems to me.

[TheArtist]

quote:Originally posted by sauerkraut

I'm against all hate crime laws. There is no need for that. A crime is a crime and is covered under current laws. No crime is one of love, all crimes are hate. A criminal does not break into a house and steal that persons belongings out of love. A vandal does not do his deed because he's kind hearted and cares, he does it to be mean. -or so it seems to me.

Not to say anything about your opinion on hate crime laws, but not all crimes are hate crimes. A person that breaks into a house and steals may not do it with any feelings towards the person who owns the things, love or hate, they are just there to steal. Perhaps they feel they need to steal something to get drug money. Your house was "picked" not because of you, but because the house looked like one they could steal from. They may have no feelings or intents specifically towards you, what so ever. They arent going out stealing with the intent to hurt someone. They could do any number of things to do that. They are going out to steal, in order to steal, not to hurt people. Though hurting people is exactly what they are doing.

I dont think a burglar knows and hates every person they steal from. If they didnt know where a friend happened to live, they may inadvertantly steal from that friend. Its not about hate, its about stealing.

If a group of teens goes out and vandalizes some cars, they may not know a thing about who owns those cars. Or be doing it because they hate those people. They may not even know who or what kind of people own those cars. They may be mean and hateful kids, but it seems to be to be qualitatively different when someone or a group of people are specifically targeting someone. They are focused on you and will do whatever they can to hurt you. Are looking for ways to hurt you. Knowing that is different than being the victim of a "random act of violence or crime".

[FOTD]

And peeps wonder why our children are so eager to leave Oklahoma after college. The one's who don't get a good education stay.

[Double A]

quote:Originally posted by FOTD

And peeps wonder why our children are so eager to leave Oklahoma after college. The one's who don't get a good education stay.

About time you all started figuring out it's not the lack of flashy new developments, but the oppression in this state. That and the undue influence that the wealthy have in this state. Many would rather not stay and play these games. Can't say I blame them.

[patric]

quote:Originally posted by inteller

the reason they clamor for hate crime is because they can get the FBI involved.

Remember the "Black Church Arson Epidemic" a few years back?  It was great press fodder, but once they started to be investigated it was found there were more white churches burned than black churches, and even some of the black church fires were self-set to get in on the publicity (and to collect insurance).
http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19981023&slug=2779297

"Hate Crimes" gives momentum to divisive politics, and keeps the playing field unlevel.

[MDepr2007]

quote:Originally posted by FOTD

And peeps wonder why our children are so eager to leave Oklahoma after college. The one's who don't get a good education stay.

Some stay because they were also raised with more family values and value family more than money and goods