Fair compromise in Michigan & Florida

[pmcalk]

After a very long day, the Rules & Bylaws committee of the Democratic Party votes to seat the full number of Florida & Michigan delegates with a half vote each.  This is a fair compromise.  It ensures that states that followed the rules are not penalized by states that chose to ignore them.  Yet, it does not ignore the voice of the people who voted in those states.  I am glad they decided not to give full votes to the Superdelegates--superdelegates clearly should not have more say that the vote of the people.

I truly hope that Hillary reconsiders taking this to the convention.  This was a fair decision, and now is the time for unity.  Given the behavior of some at the meeting, I fear that they would rather destroy the party then to accept a compromise.

[RecycleMichael]

Thanks for finally agreeing that the votes cast by Florida and Michigan residents be counted. I knew that you would come around.

I see Obama is finally leaving his church as well. Even Obama is coming around.

[jamesrage]

I think the democrats are screwing themselves on this by making only half the votes count in Florida and Michigan count. All their delegates will be seated but only half will count?What kind of double speak is that?

[rwarn17588]

quote:Originally posted by jamesrage

I think the democrats are screwing themselves on this by making only half the votes count in Florida and Michigan count. All their delegates will be seated but only half will count?What kind of double speak is that?

It's the same exact punishment the Republican Party has given to Michigan, Florida, New Hampshire, South Carolina and Wyoming for moving up their primaries early.

So if you're looking for refuge from "double speak," you're out of luck.

You'll need a better talking point than that, james.

[USRufnex]

quote:Originally posted by jamesrage

I think the democrats are screwing themselves on this by making only half the votes count in Florida and Michigan count. All their delegates will be seated but only half will count?What kind of double speak is that?

The same kind of doublespeak YOU engage in when you ignore the FACTS that your Republican party not only penalized Michigan and Florida, making only half the votes count...  The GOP also penalized New Hampshire and South Carolina and Wyoming, making only half their votes count.

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2007/11/08/rnc_rules_early_states_to_lose.html

And can you tell me why Iowa's Republican caucuses are "nonbinding"???  While you're at it, please explain to me how Mike Huckabee WON the Louisiana primary over John McCain, yet he received ZERO delegates for his efforts and McCain won them all?

Huckabee 69,665 43%  0 delegates
McCain   67,609 42% 41 delegates  
Paul      8,595  5%  0 delegates


Look it up.  Please.  I double-dog dare you.

[guido911]

Oh I get it, the democrats are trying to act like republicans. That "count every vote" crap from 2000 was BS anyway.

[jamesrage]

quote:Originally posted by rwarn17588

quote:Originally posted by jamesrage

I think the democrats are screwing themselves on this by making only half the votes count in Florida and Michigan count. All their delegates will be seated but only half will count?What kind of double speak is that?

It's the same exact punishment the Republican Party has given to Michigan, Florida, New Hampshire, South Carolina and Wyoming for moving up their primaries early.

So if you're looking for refuge from "double speak," you're out of luck.

You'll need a better talking point than that, james.

It makes the republicans just as wrong when they screw the voters too.

[guido911]

Not every dem thinks there was a fair compromise:

http://www.blogsforjohnmccain.com/angry-hillary-supporters-will-vote-mccain

[USRufnex]

quote:Originally posted by guido911

Oh I get it, the democrats are trying to act like republicans. That "count every vote" crap from 2000 was BS anyway.

That's what you and the truth-twisting Clinton spinners would have us believe.

Yet another LIE.  Obama was not allowed to campaign in Florida and was pressured to take his name off the ballot in Michigan.

http://www.etalkinghead.com/archives/clintons-michigan-and-florida-hypocrisy-2008-03-18.html

Suppose that the Dallas Cowboys play the Houston Texans in an exhibition game next August and the Texans win. Then suppose that the Texans subsequently appeal to NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell to have the game counted in the regular season standings. How fair would that be? Of course, it wouldn't be fair at all as the Cowboys would rightly argue that, had they known the game was going to count, they would have put more resources into it and tried a lot harder to win it.

As we all should know, it's not fair to change the rules after the fact, but that's exactly what Hillary Clinton is arguing to have done. It's no different than what the Houston Texans would be arguing for in my supposition above. Last August, the Democratic National Committee decided to strip Michigan and Florida of all of their convention delegates because they scheduled their primaries before February 5 (a date that only Iowa, New Hampshire, and South Carolina were allowed to precede). That reduced Michigan's and Florida's primaries to mere beauty contests (that's what exhibition games in politics are called).

When that decision was made, every contender for the Democratic presidential nomination, including Clinton, agreed to it.

[guido911]

quote:Originally posted by USRufnex

quote:Originally posted by guido911

Oh I get it, the democrats are trying to act like republicans. That "count every vote" crap from 2000 was BS anyway.

That's what you and the truth-twisting Clinton spinners would have us believe.

Yet another LIE.  Obama was not allowed to campaign in Florida and was pressured to take his name off the ballot in Michigan.

http://www.etalkinghead.com/archives/clintons-michigan-and-florida-hypocrisy-2008-03-18.html

Suppose that the Dallas Cowboys play the Houston Texans in an exhibition game next August and the Texans win. Then suppose that the Texans subsequently appeal to NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell to have the game counted in the regular season standings. How fair would that be? Of course, it wouldn't be fair at all as the Cowboys would rightly argue that, had they known the game was going to count, they would have put more resources into it and tried a lot harder to win it.

As we all should know, it's not fair to change the rules after the fact, but that's exactly what Hillary Clinton is arguing to have done. It's no different than what the Houston Texans would be arguing for in my supposition above. Last August, the Democratic National Committee decided to strip Michigan and Florida of all of their convention delegates because they scheduled their primaries before February 5 (a date that only Iowa, New Hampshire, and South Carolina were allowed to precede). That reduced Michigan's and Florida's primaries to mere beauty contests (that's what exhibition games in politics are called).

When that decision was made, every contender for the Democratic presidential nomination, including Clinton, agreed to it.

I could care less about Clinton, Obama, or the Dem party rules committee's decision. I thought my point was fairly simple; you and RW were arguing that it's okay for the dems to penalize MI & FL because the repubs did the same thing. Dems acting like repubs, "two wrongs don't make a right" sort of thing. Now, tell me again how exactly I was lying?

[tim huntzinger]

The MI & FL Dems played a game with the DNC's rules and got burned, disenfranchising half of their members' votes.  And they call that a victory?  What a joke!  I watched most of the proceedings and there was no good explanation for why the rules were violated.

How long will it take partisans to realize that their Parties are the problem with the process? Together, the Parties are the single most powerful institution in America but whose more noble purposes are crippled by the sycophantic me-first insiders who have control.

Fair? Insiders cause disenfranchisement of 50% of voters in two states and NO ONE will be held accountable.  Democratic? HA!

[spoonbill]

The DNC system was created to nullify the real will of the democratic voter.  It's designed under the assumption that the average democratic voter is an idiot, and if the DNC were to let their vote actually count, they would consistently choose candidates that were unelectable.  

I don't think I can argue with that logic.  This election system has caused a problem for them.  Their constituents now understand that their vote has been minimized over the years by the elitists.  For future elections the party will be required to change these draconian rules and create a more transparent system.  The votes of the people will have to actually count.  This is a dangerous prospect for the DNC.

[iplaw]

quote:Originally posted by USRufnex

quote:Originally posted by guido911

Oh I get it, the democrats are trying to act like republicans. That "count every vote" crap from 2000 was BS anyway.

That's what you and the truth-twisting Clinton spinners would have us believe.

Yet another LIE.  Obama was not allowed to campaign in Florida and was pressured to take his name off the ballot in Michigan.

http://www.etalkinghead.com/archives/clintons-michigan-and-florida-hypocrisy-2008-03-18.html

Suppose that the Dallas Cowboys play the Houston Texans in an exhibition game next August and the Texans win. Then suppose that the Texans subsequently appeal to NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell to have the game counted in the regular season standings. How fair would that be? Of course, it wouldn't be fair at all as the Cowboys would rightly argue that, had they known the game was going to count, they would have put more resources into it and tried a lot harder to win it.

As we all should know, it's not fair to change the rules after the fact, but that's exactly what Hillary Clinton is arguing to have done. It's no different than what the Houston Texans would be arguing for in my supposition above. Last August, the Democratic National Committee decided to strip Michigan and Florida of all of their convention delegates because they scheduled their primaries before February 5 (a date that only Iowa, New Hampshire, and South Carolina were allowed to precede). That reduced Michigan's and Florida's primaries to mere beauty contests (that's what exhibition games in politics are called).

When that decision was made, every contender for the Democratic presidential nomination, including Clinton, agreed to it.

Obama wasn't allowed to campaign in Florida?  No one forced him not to campaign, his choice was voluntary. Clinton similarly chose voluntarily not to campaign in Florida.

The boycott is over. Democratic presidential candidates Barack Obama and Hillary Rodham Clinton were both in Florida today after avoiding the state since last fall. -- http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24764783

Why are you portraying him as a victim in this?