Judging by the current state of this section...

[azbadpuppy]

Some good points made! Personally, I only stay downtown when I frequent Tulsa, unless I am going to visit family. Last time I was there (November 09) I was pleasantly surprised at the progress made in DT as far as restaurant choices and nitelife options (I loved Tiny's!) Also, I love to walk around, and nowhere in Tulsa is more fun to walk around than DT.

DT still has a ways to go, but at least it is uniquely Tulsa. Why would any tourists stay out at 71st? Unless you are from a very small community with no shopping, it offers nothing more that every other reasonably built up suburban area in the country offers.

I grew up in south Tulsa, and rarely go back to visit that area. It seems that most of the new, homespun, interesting growth is happening in the central city. That's a great thing to see.

[we vs us]

I think a lot of the negativity about downtown is more habit than anything but I also think there's a strain of disappointment that somehow DT skipped the building boom of the early oughts.  A sense that T-Town not only didn't actively benefit from the last 6 years or so but that somehow it was passed over or ignored. I was driving around there today, though, and it's pretty obvious that within 5 years or so things will be very different, and brilliantly so.  The city  (and IMO mostly KT) has made a lot of savvy moves that put us in line to squarely benefit from the next upturn, and I think that's when it will become apparent -- when the economy turns around and people are ready to look optimistically at the opportunities DT.

Of course there's already a pretty strong corps of DT entrepreneurs right now (props Blake!), which I think is a kinda crazy-impressive given the economy right now.

[Hawkins]

To Blake: I am honored that you took the time to call me out on this. Great discussion. I do wish you the best.

Some "points" I don't think we'll agree on.

1) You seem to hate Fox and Hound. Fox and Hound is always open and serving food until 2:00am. Like clockwork. Try to order food at a typical Tulsa bar after 12:00 and you usually get told no.

Now I don't know what your food policy is, but you can seriously order a pizza at Fox and Hound at 1:00am and they will make you one. On a Tuesday.

I'm not saying that is the best place in the world, but it is the closest thing to a Dallas/like late-night venue I've found in Tulsa--right down to the Woodchuck apple cider.    

2)Also, you mentioned UP THE CREEK, Hahahahahahahaha. And a few others that have failed. It comes with the territory I guess when the competition is stiff. What's that crazy new concept over there, the Firerock? HAhahahaha, again, ridiculous. I sure do think of food when I think of hot lava, LOL. Who designed that logo? I don't just rip on downtown, I rip on what I believe is clearly NOT going to work.

Your operation may indeed work, though. You make a good point about the bartending. It is hard to find a decent bartender in South Tulsa, I will give you that.

3) If you are going to put 30 games in the retro hub, however, you are going to cross over from "a bar with games" to "a gameroom and bar." I still worry about your maintenance costs here, as well as use of this space. Perhaps though, you will draw the right crowd, but it won't be families on their way to the ballgame, just adults, like you said.

I sincerely hope you make the money you're after. Is the rent considerably cheaper at this location than at your 61st & 169 spot? That could sure help. There does seem to be a lot of hero worship for business owners that take their concepts downtown. I'm sure you will have regulars.

--

But you other guys... Downtown retaking the economic title from 71st & 169 in 5 years? Hahahahahahaha.

Now all of you harping about tourists/business travelers downtown... have you seen how many hotels have recently gone up at the 71st & 169 junction? What is that Green-lit rooftop thing over by Woodland that just came on? Is that another one? There are about 4 (including the Renaissance) around the Cinemark IMAX (touristy little thing there) and a new one just to the north of the Fox and Hound.

That's a lot of hotels for an area you guys think is over-rated. And in that 1 1/2 mile area between Woodland and the IMAX, that is a Megaladon of cash grabbing going on.

[Red Arrow]

with mixers like Jolt Cola,

That stuff is still on the market?  I remember the ads, all the caffein the law will allow.  It's off my menu, actually it was never on my menu.

[Conan71]

That stuff is still on the market?  I remember the ads, all the caffein the law will allow.  It's off my menu, actually it was never on my menu.

I had a couple of cans of that with me on an all night drive to Nebraska one night.  I'll never drink it again, I was a total jangled mess by the time I got north of Salina, Ks.

[Breadburner]

Things will start to pop once the weather warms up and it dries out.......

[Cats Cats Cats]

I really hate to sound like a wet noodle again, but I have my doubts that such a project as this "Retropub" can be successful in downtown Tulsa. I will watching this with interest.

IF the downtown area could support such a place, I would think a D&B's would have had their eye on a location there. Instead, Dave & Buster's chose to locate in the ECONOMIC center of Tulsa-- 71st and Hwy 169. This is where all the money is spent, and development costs have skyrocketed.

Retro games can be placed in ANY bar, and some bars have a small selection of coin-op games and pool tables, like Fox and Hound, for example (also located near the center of Tulsa's actual economic downtown, just down the street at 71st & Garnett).

However, they (retro games in particular) quickly lose their appeal when trying to bring in repeat business, which is essential to surviving the Tulsa market, since we are not exactly a hub of tourism.

I think the idea sounds cool, but the revenues will be flat. Maintenance won't be fun either, as buzzed players can be rough on old games like that.

Please don't mention the crap that is D&B on this board again.  Ugg that place sucks.

Dave & Buster's chose to locate in the ECONOMIC center of (Right outside of Mathis Brothers and behind Best Buy).

Sounds like the center to me

[RecycleMichael]

Please don't mention the crap that is D&B on this board again.  Ugg that place sucks.

You are such a grown-up.

Me and my kids love that place.

[Cats Cats Cats]

You are such a grown-up.

Me and my kids love that place.

I like Incredible Pizza better for games.  D&B is just kinda, Eh..  They did spend more $$$$ on games though.  Their store is one of those half-assed (oh I am sorry, they call them hybrid) stores.

[Townsend]

I like Incredible Pizza better for games.  D&B is just kinda, Eh..  They did spend more $$$$ on games though.  Their store is one of those half-assed (oh I am sorry, they call them hybrid) stores.

I wouldn't poke at either store with a sharp stick.

[Conan71]

Gotta admire Blake's passion though: "I'd rather shoot myself in the face..."

That's kind of along the lines of me hearing the distinct whirring of a tree shredder when the doors open in front of me as I walk into a Wal-Mart

[Hawkins]

Please don't mention the crap that is D&B on this board again.  Ugg that place sucks.

Dave & Buster's chose to locate in the ECONOMIC center of (Right outside of Mathis Brothers and behind Best Buy).

Sounds like the center to me

Okay, it had its own thread for awhile, but I'll not mention it again.

I think you miss the point of their location though. Their sign is visible from 169, and they are located between the IMAX corridor and the Woodland Mall traffic jam that is 71st and Memorial.

I would wager that 1 1/2 mile area between the IMAX and Woodland has the most retail impact in northeastern Oklahoma. And yes, a lot of it is big box, and traffic on 71st sucks. I'm just saying, its the hub.

[sgrizzle]

Okay, it had its own thread for awhile, but I'll not mention it again.

I think you miss the point of their location though. Their sign is visible from 169, and they are located between the IMAX corridor and the Woodland Mall traffic jam that is 71st and Memorial.

I would wager that 1 1/2 mile area between the IMAX and Woodland has the most retail impact in northeastern Oklahoma. And yes, a lot of it is big box, and traffic on 71st sucks. I'm just saying, its the hub.

I live two miles from there, am on their email list, am in their target audience, and never been there.

[carltonplace]

Downtown in early 2010.... Boomtown Tee's, Dust Bowl, The Max Retropub, Hey Mambo, Lee's Bike's, Back Alley Blues and BBQ, Another un-named bar, and rumors of a new running store by Lee's. Additionally, there are some new things coming by the ballpark and more developments on the horizon (two significant ones) in the BOK area, and around 5th and Elgin. There are more than a couple loft projects in the works and don't forget about the hotel in the Atlas building, the Convention Center remodel, and a new baseball stadium.

In the last few months we've seen several things open as well: Yokozuna, Zarbo's Greek Grill, Hunt Club, New YMCA, that camping store, etc...

Seems to me like there's a decent amount of "Development & New Business" happening. . . and that's just inside the IDL.

Maybe this new business just isn't compelling enough to merit the attention of the forum. What can we do to amp up the interest and excitement?

Adding to the list:
Tiamo's
Mayo Hotel
Buns and Roses
Deli on Cheyenne (is it backcreek deli?)
Sporting Goods store in Gunboat (there seems to be momemtum building in gunboat)
on going cunstruction in the Pearl
Ongoing projects at the bend (including the old tiny bar/818)
Enzo
Snyder's development on north Detroit
Warehouse remodel on north Boston and Cameron

I noticed a permit in the windows of some of the buildings east of McNellies


I'd really like to see a mixed use parking structure in the surface lot east of the PAC/South of City Hall. It would only need to use half of the block (or less) and the rest could be developed for other uses.