Neighbors and Tree Trimming

[sgrizzle]

Not too long ago I had a neighbor on one side of me demanding I trim branches from my trees that were near to her house. Luckily she moved. Now on the other side of my house a slumlord/houseflipper has just started work. They are painting and fixing up which I'm happy with. What I'm not happy with is some of their trimming of trees on my property. I came home yesterday to find several branches shoddily removed.

I understand cutting branches over/near your property, but they came 7ft across my property line to remove some branches. However, they only had a small chainsaw so they left about 3ft of a branch because it got too dense. I've got a 3ft stump of a branch on my tree now. They also didn't do any pruning sealer or otherwise.

Other than being crappy neighbors, did they violate anything? If they are going to prune I think they should be made to do it right, am I right? As I understand it, if they cause damage or loss to a tree, they are liable, correct?

[cannon_fodder]

In general, a property owner is responsible for trimming trees on that occupy space on their property.  Thus, you were not responsible for trimming portions of your tree hanging over your neighbors property line.  The exception to this rule is if you have notice that your tree has become a hazard (ie. large limbs fell during a storm and appear more will fall if you don't do something).

Likewise, your neighbor has the right to trim your tree up to their property line. Technically, the can not enter your property to assist in this maneuver and may not trim any branch nor portion that does not over hang their property.  Thus, they trespassed when they entered your land and caused damage by removing the tree.

An action could be brought for private nuisance by trespass, as adopted in Oklahoma from the Second Restatement of Torts:
Liability for Intentional Intrusions on Land, provides:

quote:
One is subject to liability to another for trespass, irrespective of whether he thereby causes harm to any legally protected interest of the other, if he intentionally

(a) enters land in the possession of the other, or causes a thing or a third person to do so, or

(b) remains on the land, or

(c) fails to remove from the land a thing which he is under a duty to remove.

Angier v. Mathews Exploration Corp., 1995 OK CIV APP 109, 905 P.2d 826

HOWEVER... the damages would be the financial loss you sustain as a result.  BURKE v. THOMAS
1957 OK 154.  If the tree were killed, you could argue for reduced value to your property OR the replacement cost of the tree. Since it is not killed, all you can argue is the reduced value of your home.  Which is probably negligible (damages are on a property basis or agricultural basis on trees, either way you're screwed).

I did a case where a fly-over spray to kill trees in a pasture destroyed the trees on a 60 acre rural homestead.  All the law I was able to find set the damages on what the economic or sale value of the property was before and after.  A rural tract of land in no-where Oklahoma is worth more as cleared pasture than it is as scrub forest even though the owner wanted the scrub for the few fruit trees & pecans as well as recreational and aesthetic uses.  We settled for the cost of clearing the dead trees calling them safety hazards.

What I'm getting at is they did you wrong... but you have no real recourse.  While it was intentionally (most cases are accidental) there are no real damages to take action on.  Perhaps you could demand that they hire a forestry expert to take proper care of the tree or at least ask them to finish the job and apologize.    

I'll see if there is a city ordinance or anything later...

/end crappy and quick legal research mostly from memory

[patric]

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

they came 7ft across my property line to remove some branches. However, they only had a small chainsaw so they left about 3ft of a branch because it got too dense. I've got a 3ft stump of a branch on my tree now. They also didn't do any pruning sealer or otherwise.

Possibly consider criminal trespass and/or vandalism.

[sgrizzle]

So what should I do? Write up a letter showing the err of their ways and my demands?

[RecycleMichael]

I say get a load of free wood chips from the city...dump them in his yard right about where the tree branch was.

Then, when he comes over to ask about the pile of wood chips on his property, act stupid.

Say to him, "so that's is what must have happened to MY tree branches."

[cannon_fodder]

Well, if you want to tlak criminal:

quote:
Every person who willfully commits any trespass by either:

1. Cutting down or destroying any kind of wood or timber, standing or growing upon the lands of another; or, driving or riding through, into, or across any cultivated hedge or tree row, or any grove of ornamental trees or orchard of fruit trees growing upon the land of another, or in any other manner injurying the same; or

. . .

is guilty of a misdemeanor.

Trespass by Destroying, Cutting or Taking Wood, Timber, etc., 21 OS 1768

But that doesn't really help the land owner recovery any damages and technically you can't threaten someone with criminal prosecution "unless."

Your course of action is to talk to the crew and see if they will finish the job.  Otherwise, find out who is in charge and get them on the phone. Explain your situation and that it seems unwise to piss off a neighbor who might be able to help keep tabs on his rent house.  It seems reasonable to request they finish the job appropriately (perhaps with other trim work that needs to be done for your trouble).

If he wants to be a jerk sent him a written letter and keep a copy of it.

If he still wants to be a jerk and you want to retaliate, hire a certified arborist and have them properly trim the tree.  Then sue him in small claims court for whatever those costs are and whatever "damages" to the value of your property.  

Perhaps $250 worth of work to properly trim up a large tree... so probably not worth the pain in the donkey factor.  But that would be your recourse in my totally non-lawyer amateur I spent 30 seconds thinking about this non-opinion you can't hold me liable for taking my advice I get your first born view.

[Ben]

I am in the opposite situation, so I want to really understand how this advice applies from the other side.

Next to me is a rental property. I have a good neighborly relationship with the tenants, but have never had any real contact with owner or landlord.

They have a tree with encroaches on my property. I am generally a fan of trees, however, this one is crowding out a tree on my property, overhangs my house, and very soon will be touching my house. In addition the tree has 2 trunks, the crotch between them is to my untrained eye compromised by a 2x4 piece of lumber which the tree has grown around, and there is an obvious seam between the trunks. One of said trunks directly overhangs my house. 

I know I can just start cutting. On a basic level I don't want to take on that expense. But I also don't want to end up on the other side of sgrizzle's situation with my neighbor mad at me for cutting on their tree, doing a bad job, etc.

I have a phone number for the landlord and have left multiple messages asking to meet and discuss the situation with no response. I have also sent a (truly) friendly letter to the person and address listed as the owner asking to meet to discuss the situation as well, again with no response.

I guess I have lots of questions really, ill try to pick a few.

First, can I compel them in some way to maintain the tree in such a way that it does not encroach on the tree on my side or my house?

Second, given their lack of response, what do I need to do to protect myself if I do have their tree trimmed?


I want to understand this from their perspective also, so sgrizzle, I am curious why in your original post you were unwilling to trim the branches that were near your neighbors house? What do I need to be considering from their perspective as I figure out how to approach this?

[heironymouspasparagus]

Not too long ago I had a neighbor on one side of me demanding I trim branches from my trees that were near to her house. Luckily she moved. Now on the other side of my house a slumlord/houseflipper has just started work. They are painting and fixing up which I'm happy with. What I'm not happy with is some of their trimming of trees on my property. I came home yesterday to find several branches shoddily removed.

I understand cutting branches over/near your property, but they came 7ft across my property line to remove some branches. However, they only had a small chainsaw so they left about 3ft of a branch because it got too dense. I've got a 3ft stump of a branch on my tree now. They also didn't do any pruning sealer or otherwise.

Other than being crappy neighbors, did they violate anything? If they are going to prune I think they should be made to do it right, am I right? As I understand it, if they cause damage or loss to a tree, they are liable, correct?

Don't ya just love the "unintended consequences" of suburbia??  Large trees in a landscape space that is dramatically inadequate for them!  General commentary on the horticultural aspects - you have the wrong tree in the yard if it is big enough to have several branches intruding into their space.  Most likely a "developer" Maple, Ash, or Pin Oak.  If an older home, could be one of the millions of elms planted in the 30's, 40's, and 50's!

As for the stumps - NO....never coat with anything!!  No "pruning sealers", paints, tar, nothing!  If you leave the stub, just make sure it is a clean cut, at an angle (no table top orientation) and let it be!!  Early in the summer next year you will start to see scar tissue coming out from between the bark and the limb wood.   Also, recommend looking at getting that tree out so it doesn't cause worse future problems (root related going into foundation, etc) and look at flowering crabapples, redbuds, etc.  No Bradford Pears!!

Look at the stumps hanging out in space - you may want to go ahead and remove them close to the main trunk if you are going to keep the tree - would be much more attractive than small arms coming out like that - could make it heal better, too.

Don't "top" a tree - EVER!!  Disgustingly ugly, plus bad for tree health!!  If can't trim it properly, have a real arborist do it and if they can't, get the tree out!!


https://www.google.com/search?q=top+hat+pruning+a+tree&client=firefox-a&hs=VcC&sa=X&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=sb&biw=1430&bih=751&tbm=isch&imgil=qdXiMEiNzi3MRM%253A%253BSCnf1w_hJRW8CM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fblogs.scottarboretum.org%25252Fgardenseeds%25252F2008%25252F04%25252Fhat-racking-hollies%25252F&source=iu&pf=m&fir=qdXiMEiNzi3MRM%253A%252CSCnf1w_hJRW8CM%252C_&usg=__698TfCLQHZYhwYRcmPS10JvVl4A%3D&ved=0CDcQyjc&ei=JOV9VIiaFcGHyATjkYC4Bg#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=SY3n71B1IkXdUM%253A%3BgILdzCr0wtO0aM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.sarasotatreeserv.com%252Fwp-content%252Fuploads%252F2013%252F04%252Ftopped.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fsarasotatreeserv.com%252Four-services%252Ftree-pruning%252F%3B336%3B448

[Red Arrow]

My neighbor of about a year decided that he needed to do a fence line cut on some trees in the back yard that were here when we moved in 42 years ago and his space was just a vacant lot.  What a jerk.  One really big limb I let them cut back to the trunk.  One that has few small branches I only let them cut back to the fence just to keep it ugly.  Hopefully the trees will fill back in within a few years.  Right now the fence line has the PSO look.

[RecycleMichael]

PSO, "Making Trees into Odd Shapes since 1913"

[heironymouspasparagus]

My neighbor of about a year decided that he needed to do a fence line cut on some trees in the back yard that were here when we moved in 42 years ago and his space was just a vacant lot.  What a jerk.  One really big limb I let them cut back to the trunk.  One that has few small branches I only let them cut back to the fence just to keep it ugly.  Hopefully the trees will fill back in within a few years.  Right now the fence line has the PSO look.

You might want to look at getting them touched up at least a little - those stubs can also be very good entry point for disease/pests/etc. - will shorten the life of the tree.  Many of the trees I have see down in that area are Burr Oaks, Sycamores, Pecans, and Pin Oaks - when I would go through there to see a friend in decades past.  Would be a terrible shame to lose some of those!

Any stubs you can take to trunk would be beneficial to the tree.  Plus you don't end up with a "poodle" tree....which is just butt-ugly!!

[heironymouspasparagus]

PSO, "Making Trees into Odd Shapes since 1913"

About the time we started landscaping with horribly inappropriate trees in postage stamp yards.  It's a shame!


How are the new downtown trees doing?  Seeing any chlorosis - when there are leaves....?  (Yellowing leaves)