Could We Learn Something From David Cameron?

[we vs us]

Nothing in particular.  I got so used to Democratic party ideas getting implemented, often by regulation rather than a specific law, that I stopped counting.  Not all were bad ideas, just unfunded.

That's weird.  I'm not sure how writing regulations is an unfunded mandate. 

Are you talking about, like, the Clean Water Act?  or food safety regulations from the FDA, something like that?  I guess I honestly don't know how, after the Clean Water Act goes through, the enforcing agency (which I guess would be the EPA) then determines how much $$ it needs to implement it.  I think, too, that costs are born on several different levels by different entities:  the fed gov, state and local govs, individuals (through specific taxes) and industry. 

Are you saying that that's where the cost of Democratic rule is, in overly expensive regulations?  I'd sure love to see some hard numbers on that, and in comparison to, say, defense spending during Republican administrations.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Red, your argument about robust economies in war should make this a booming time.  What happened?  Oh, yeah.  All the other crap from the past.

And for raising taxes, there have been no equals to the combined raises of Reagan, Bush I.  Even Kennedy/Johnson increases didn't come close. 

Amazing how much tunnel vision accompanies the chant about "cut taxes".  When every single cut since WWII has been accompanied by hikes except for Baby Bush.  What it shows is that every President except Baby Bush understood the reality of the damage done to the economy when deficit spending runs rampant.  Econ 101. 

Apparently US News thinks we may be better off than the Murdoch/Rove lie machine would have you believe.  Depends on which side of the education and job situation you are.  College educated - 4% unemployment; up 1% from several years ago.  That more than anything shows how much of our manufacturing has been gutted by the policies of the last 30 years.  By both Republicontins and Dummycrats.

http://money.usnews.com/money/blogs/flowchart/2010/10/26/whos-gained-and-lost-under-obama-so-far

[heironymouspasparagus]

Good thing we have had government regulations or we would never have made ANY progress.

[Conan71]

What is the point of contracting the public sector and government spending in a recessionary economy if it just results in smaller tax revenues and larger deficits?


Look, These austerity measures are going to fail, all they are going to succeed in doing is to damage already weakened economies. Keynes predicts this and is being proven correct all over again. Just like Keynesian economics predicted our crash.

It's very basic, we overheated our economy with deficit spending in an expanding economy.  Keynes predicts that the larger the upturn, the larger the resulting downturn. Which is exactly what happened. Keynes instructs that during an expansion period governments should cool the economy and keep it growing by running surpluses via lower government spending and higher taxes and during periods of contraction taxes should go down and spending go up in order to lessen the downturn. Keynes goal is to lessen the wave curve of the economic cycle on both the upturn and downturn to result in a gradual upward trend of growth with only small fluctuations up or down.

We fought Keynes with huge deficit spending during a growing economy pre 2008 and now Europe is fighting Keynes again with "Austerity" and it's biting them all over again. It's like we learned nothing from the Great Depression.

Chancellor Merkel is stealing my talking points: "Growth that is not sustainable"  Really?  They build better cars, motorcycles, roads, buildings, etc.  I bet they can do economics better too.

"Back in August 2009 I made a bet that Germany would recover before the US because they were doing far less stimulus than were we. In fact Germany's Chancellor Angela Merkel said:

"The crisis did not take place because we were spending too little but because we were spending too much to create growth that was not sustainable. It isn't just that the banks took over too many risks. Governments allowed them to do so by neglecting to set the necessary [financial market] rules and, for instance in the US, by increasing the money supply too much."

[Mrs. Merkel] is robustly unapologetic when discussing the origin of the global financial meltdown. The fault, she says, ultimately lies with misguided efforts in the US, both by the government and the Federal Reserve, to re-start artificially the economy after September 11 by pumping ever-cheaper money into the financial system. "We must look at the causes of this crisis. It happened because we were living beyond our means. After the Asian crisis [of 1997] and after 9/11, governments encouraged risk-taking in order to boost growth. We cannot repeat this mistake. We must anchor growth on firmer ground."'

http://seekingalpha.com/article/231578-germany-defies-keynesian-stimulus-and-recovers

[Conan71]

At some point our debt will become unsustainable, that you can take to the bank.  Personally, I believe it already is.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/qe2-a-ponzi-scheme-says-pimcos-gross-2010-10-27

NEW YORK (MarketWatch) — The Federal Reserve's highly anticipated plan to engage in quantitative easing to pump money into the economy is a "Ponzi scheme," said Bill Gross, who manages the world's biggest bond fund for Pimco.

The actions of the Fed, led by Chairman Ben Bernanke, will "likely signify the end of a great 30-year bull market in bonds and the necessity for bond managers and, yes, equity managers to adjust to a new environment," he wrote in a commentary posted on Pimco's website Wednesday. See Gross's full commentary.

"Check writing in the trillions is not a bondholder's friend; it is in fact inflationary, and, if truth be told, somewhat of a Ponzi scheme," he said. While the U.S. has sometimes paid down its debt, "there was always the assumption that as long as creditors could be found to roll over existing loans – and buy new ones – the game could keep going forever."


AM Report: Federal Reserve Gears Up for StimulusThe Fed is close to embarking on a new round of monetary stimulus next week despite doubts among economists and some Fed decision makers. Jon Hilsenrath discusses. Also, John W. Miller discusses Europe's tougher line on trade with China, as the EU focuses on China's process for bidding on contracts.
Two-year Treasury yields /quotes/comstock/31*!ust2yr (UST2YR 0.37, -0.05, -12.20%)  , which move inversely to prices, fell to the lowest level on record -- 0.33% -- recently as bond investors increasingly expected the Fed to announce a second massive bond-purchase program after its meeting on Nov. 2-3. Read more on Treasury bonds.

Yields on 10-year notes /quotes/comstock/31*!ust10y (UST10Y 2.67, -0.06, -2.27%)   fell to the lowest since January 2009 and the dollar index /quotes/comstock/11j!i:dxy0 (DXY 77.30, -0.85, -1.08%)  , a measure of the U.S. currency against a basket of major rivals, has dropped back to the weakest levels of the year. Read about dollar.

Going into next week's elections, Gross said voters need to realize that this Ponzi scheme is unusually "brazen" and has been brought on by the government – of every political party – and its citizens.

"It is not a Bernanke scheme, because this is his only alternative and he shares no responsibility for its origin," he said.

Such a plan "raises bond prices to create the illusion of high annual returns, but ultimately it reaches a dead-end where those prices can no longer go up," Gross wrote. "Having arrived at its destination, the market then offers near 0% returns and a picking of the creditor's pocket via inflation and negative real interest rates."

[Red Arrow]

That's weird.  I'm not sure how writing regulations is an unfunded mandate. 

Really?  I think you're fishing.  What do you consider an unfunded mandate? 

Are you talking about, like, the Clean Water Act?  or food safety regulations from the FDA, something like that?  I guess I honestly don't know how, after the Clean Water Act goes through, the enforcing agency (which I guess would be the EPA) then determines how much $$ it needs to implement it.  I think, too, that costs are born on several different levels by different entities:  the fed gov, state and local govs, individuals (through specific taxes) and industry. 

You're getting close.

Are you saying that that's where the cost of Democratic rule is, in overly expensive regulations?  I'd sure love to see some hard numbers on that, and in comparison to, say, defense spending during Republican administrations. 

Do you really think you're going to get off that easily?  A good portion of the cost is in the attitude of entitlement that leads to a lack of personal responsibility.  That leads to programs to protect "me" from "myself".  Regulations are nothing more than laws that the Congress has delegated to an agency to write without the specific approval of the voters.

As far as military spending, I'm sure you are familiar with the phrase "provide for the common defense".

[Red Arrow]

Good thing we have had government regulations or we would never have made ANY progress.

I especially liked the cars of the mid seventies.  Power, economy, handling ... nothing quite like it since then.

However, I do like seatbelts in cars and there have been some significant safety improvements which has been thoroughly beat to death in other threads.

[Red Arrow]

Red, your argument about robust economies in war should make this a booming time.  What happened?  Oh, yeah.  All the other crap from the past.

I don't know.  It worked in WWII, Korea, Viet Nam.  Must be Bush's fault.

And for raising taxes, there have been no equals to the combined raises of Reagan, Bush I.  Even Kennedy/Johnson increases didn't come close. 

I actually did pretty good during the Reagan, Bush I era.  I have to admit that I was beginning my Engineering career after my time in the Navy.  The usual salary increases from beginning engineer to experienced engineer make it difficult to track the actual tax structure.  I know the marginal rates on my Federal Income Taxes were down for a while.  Social Security is a tax that certainly went up but it is one I expect to personally get a return on so I kind of consider it a forced retirement saving plan.   Bush I reneged on "no new taxes" and it probably cost him a second term.

Amazing how much tunnel vision accompanies the chant about "cut taxes".  When every single cut since WWII has been accompanied by hikes except for Baby Bush.  What it shows is that every President except Baby Bush understood the reality of the damage done to the economy when deficit spending runs rampant.  Econ 101. 

Well then, let's tax our way to prosperity.  Also the subject of many threads before.

Apparently US News thinks we may be better off than the Murdoch/Rove lie machine would have you believe.  Depends on which side of the education and job situation you are.  College educated - 4% unemployment; up 1% from several years ago.  That more than anything shows how much of our manufacturing has been gutted by the policies of the last 30 years.  By both Republicontins and Dummycrats. 

I'll agree that manufacturing has been gutted. We probably disagree on specific policies that caused it if for no other reason than we like to disagree with each other.

[we vs us]

A good portion of the cost is in the attitude of entitlement that leads to a lack of personal responsibility.  That leads to programs to protect "me" from "myself". 

How is the Clean Water Act or FDA food regulations protecting me from myself?  Perhaps you're unhappy with state motorcycle helmet laws?  Or some of those local school districts who've decided to ban soda from elementary school cafeterias?  or maybe you're against anti-smoking efforts?  

Yeah, I'm fishing.  All I'm hearing are the same old platitudes . . . artfully stated, of course, but the same old platitudes nonetheless.  So I'm trying to get you to tell me what the nannystatism you object to is, and what specific rules you think Democrats have used to so inflate the government's budget that it's toppling over.  

[Red Arrow]

How is the Clean Water Act or FDA food regulations protecting me from myself?  Perhaps you're unhappy with state motorcycle helmet laws?  Or some of those local school districts who've decided to ban soda from elementary school cafeterias?  or maybe you're against anti-smoking efforts?  

Yeah, I'm fishing.  All I'm hearing are the same old platitudes . . . artfully stated, of course, but the same old platitudes nonetheless.  So I'm trying to get you to tell me what the nannystatism you object to is, and what specific rules you think Democrats have used to so inflate the government's budget that it's toppling over.  

While you are thinking of what you think an unfunded mandate is, I'll work on some of your requests.   

In some cases, the answer will be subjective.  How clean is clean water and at what price?  Do you want to dip a glass directly into the Arkansas and drink from it?   

I have to get up at 6:00 so I'll have to go for now.

[swake]

As far as military spending, I'm sure you are familiar with the phrase "provide for the common defense".

Where does it say we should spend more on our military than the entire rest of the world, combined.

[Red Arrow]

Where does it say we should spend more on our military than the entire rest of the world, combined.

Third paragraph, second page.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Quick one for you Red,
How about being able to scoop up a cup of water out of the Arkansas and not be scooping up raw sewage from Sand Springs?

One of the many liability considerations that caused the downfall of the KRMG Raft Race.  Every time they "flushed" the Arkansas the day before the race, a massive shot of Sand Springs S*** would go running down the river.  EVERY raft was accompanied by a large glob of brown foamy floating stuff!  Or more than one.