Why did we lose this? Pontiac Museum

[TheArtist]

Here's who you need to talk to.....


http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=17744.0

Seems all I here is streetcar/lightrail/passenger rail.

Must have missed that thread but will definitely go to it and chime in. 

As for streetcar/light rail/passenger rail.  The main thing for me isn't getting the actual rail funded and operating right away, but laying the groundwork for it to "work" first, THEN getting the rail, aka Pedestrian Friendly Zoning.  If people get off a fancy new train and then can't walk anywhere that = EXPENSIVE FAIL!   Sure figure out where the rail and stations will be, but then immediately get the zoning in place so that developers will have time to create something pedestrian friendly. 

Pedestrian Friendly and Mass Transit Friendly have to be seen as the same thing or it won't work and will be terribly expensive.  It would be like building an arterial road out to a suburban neighborhood, that doesn't have any roads inside the neighborhood, only sidewalks.  Without the right supporting infrastructure, everyone would be forced to drive after they got off the rail, or walk after they got off the arterial road.

[heironymouspasparagus]

I guess it would depend on where it goes.
Just around town - not much.
To OKC, then Dallas, maybe some more.

Report heard on radio yesterday said that Heartland Flyer was "doing well"...whatever that means.  Bringing over 3 times the economic activity than it costs.  We try to do our part by riding the train to Ft. Worth several times a year.

Kind of goes to that old discussion about the Clashship.  What multiplier is the right one?

And while I mention the Clashship, can't they clean up all those dark streaks down the side that have been building up for the last year or so??  Starting to look like a "used car" Clashship.  It's gonna take some maintenance for all that metal....  but then, we didn't take care of the old one, did we??

[nathanm]

You need some cheese, H-dog?

[Hoss]

You need some cheese, H-dog?

The arena gets a jet-wash twice a year.  Being in a climate prone to dust, that streaking is the result of dust/dirt collecting in the crevasses in the joints and then the rain makes that stuff run.

Sorry, I'm channeling the cabbage right now...

[heironymouspasparagus]

Looks like corrosion of some sort...maybe from fasteners up under the edge of each of those sheets.  Seems kind of dark for just dust/dirt accumulation.  Just when I was starting to warm up to the thing.... oh, well, guess I can still like it....

[Hoss]

Looks like corrosion of some sort...maybe from fasteners up under the edge of each of those sheets.  Seems kind of dark for just dust/dirt accumulation.  Just when I was starting to warm up to the thing.... oh, well, guess I can still like it....

Get a lot of weeping of water with the 6 degree outward tilt of the wall.  It tends to keep that dirty water on the surface.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Yeah, I see that on a lot of different structures (my car!!).  Just seemed like the color was a little odd.

[Red Arrow]

Out of curiosity, what will light-rail do for this city?

A downtown circulator system could be a forerunner of less surface parking...

I agree with Artist that just installing tracks could be an expensive failure without proper planning.  Now is the time to start the planning.

I see 3 levels of potential rail.
    1. Streetcar/trolley as a circulator downtown.  Provides a method for people to get from the light rail or heavy rail station to the place they want to go. BOK Center to Blue Dome and Brady would be a start.  Then expand to Cherry St and Brookside if the projected ridership is there.
    2. Light rail would go to nearby areas like the outer reaches of Tulsa itself or the nearby suburbs.  Routes using existing rail would probably have to be heavy rail due to regulations about mixing light and heavy rail. I am thinking of a Broken Arrow route or using the mainline to Tulsa International.  The New Mexico Railrunner would be an example of this.  I think light rail would have a greater chance for success if much of it could be grade separated like the trolley system where I was pre 20 yrs old.  It would be difficult to get that much ROW.  The system where I grew up was put in when it went through the boonies from western Philadelphia to the county seat in Media, PA.  Most of it is filled in now.
    3. Heavy rail (except as above) would include farther places as OKC, Dallas.  Hopefully it would be high speed enough to make it more attractive than driving a car or waiting an hour and a half in the airport for a 50 minute ride to Dallas followed by trying to rent a car.

All of this would depend on having enough potential riders to make it work.  Without enough riders, even a bus system would fail.

[Red Arrow]

There is still a lot of rail transit around Philadelphia.  SEPTA is not without its problems but it serves a fair sized area.  I believe most of the support is from commuters.  Just like the highways of Tulsa allowed the suburbs to grow, the rail transit system allowed the suburbs to grow around Phila.  Much of the rail went in about 100 years ago.

The link below is a clickable map to plan trips.  Most of the destinations are within about a 20 mile straight line radius of downtown.

http://www.septa.org/maps/system/index.html