Unfortunate Redevelopment on 6th

[zstyles]

That pretty much stems from me watching people who look just fine park in handicap spots at my place of employment.  And have placards.  Not sure how.

Whats your point that everyone has to limp, have one arm and need a wheelchair?

[erfalf]

Very interesting.  Thing is, my first reaction would be that the art deco facade that is on there now isn't authentic.  If it is I would be quite suprised.  The deco feature in the middle looks "cliche" as if it's a modern vision of what art deco was, but didn't actually exist.  So I would really like to know if that facade is authentic.   

I couldn't tell you, but I know whatever was under there was covered up for quit some time. I also know that some "repairs" had to be made but old photos were used to help. I don't think this building is as old as most of the others downtown. I think this one may be from the 30's where many of it's neighbors are closer to the turn of the century, 10's & 20's. Art deco is pretty rare up here unlike Tulsa. Most of the buildings in downtown are brick due to the Vitrified Brick plant down the street.

Either way, it is still a dramatic improvement to what was there before. I'll take it any day of the week.

Right now downtown Bartlesville (at least the part where visitors would go is kind of removed from the rest of the residential area. The river to the north (no development north of the river), industrial to the west, several blocks of churches and parking lots to the south and busy roads with no stop signs/lights to the east. This building is could help stretch the interesting part of downtown to the east.

[sgrizzle]

From what I hear there are going to be three tenants (unknown right now).

Supercuts, Verizon and Mattress Firm





Just a guess, but I probably got at least 2 out of 3.

[tulsa1603]

Sounds like you might be starting to understand the angst conservatives have over liberal initiatives like ADA.  Somehow some businesses seem to avoid the asspain while others pay dearly.  I've still never figured out how Elote maintains the little water closets Nelson's left behind.  Not a single clue of ADA there. 

Tulsa is still an amazingly beautiful place, especially in the spring.  It is unfortunate we've lost many significant old buildings, but we still have a lot of unique places and views.

You really ought to get involved in the Tulsa Art Deco museum.

Re: Elote and ADA - ADA is a civil law, so your local building inspector isn't enforcing it- however the International Building Code does have accessibility requirements that effectively require you to meet the ADA requirements.  In the case of Elote, I think they can get away with what they have because in the codes, there are allowances for existing buildings - as long as you don't change the use group, and even then there are exceptions.  That space has been a restaurant since when...the 1950's (?), and since it's still a restaurant, no upgrade is needed.  If someone were to go in and do a major renovation, these requirements would probably need to be met, or if someone wanted to change it into some other use, like a store, they would likely have to modify, but the law also has some leeway in it if it's physically impossible to accomodate the requirements in an existing building, etc., but they have to be met "to the extent possible".  All new buildings definitely should conform. 

[dbacks fan]

Re: Elote and ADA - ADA is a civil law, so your local building inspector isn't enforcing it- however the International Building Code does have accessibility requirements that effectively require you to meet the ADA requirements.  In the case of Elote, I think they can get away with what they have because in the codes, there are allowances for existing buildings - as long as you don't change the use group, and even then there are exceptions.  That space has been a restaurant since when...the 1950's (?), and since it's still a restaurant, no upgrade is needed.  If someone were to go in and do a major renovation, these requirements would probably need to be met, or if someone wanted to change it into some other use, like a store, they would likely have to modify, but the law also has some leeway in it if it's physically impossible to accomodate the requirements in an existing building, etc., but they have to be met "to the extent possible".  All new buildings definitely should conform.  

I can think of an instance where I think you can be forced to meet ADA regs. Back in the mid 90's Rosie's Rib Joint was forced to meet ADA for the restrooms and access to the dining room. The building has always been a restaurant going bcak to when it was Chicken, Steak and Chocolate Cake when it originally opened in the 70's. They had to remove the two steps that went from the entrance inside going to the dining room and replace them with a ramp, and they had to completely redo the restrooms to make them wheelchair access. Also there was a story in the news here that all lodging facilities that have a pool will have to install permanent lift devices for pools and spas at their locations in the US. They wont be allowed to use a portable lift. So if the hotel has a pool and a spa/jacuzzi, they have to have an electric lift for each one, and as the story was presented the cost here is about $10k to $14k per location. One of the local places has had the portable lift available for guests for about 10 years, and has yet no one has requested the lift in that time according to the owner.

[Red Arrow]

The Garner Museum in Uvalde, TX was forced to close part of the museum (the upstairs) because they could not afford to put in an elevator to meet ADA requirements. (Garner was VP for FDR.)  The museum is the former residence of the former VP.

http://www.friendsofjohngarnermuseum.org/museumhistory.html

[erfalf]

Supercuts, Verizon and Mattress Firm





Just a guess, but I probably got at least 2 out of 3.

Generally I would agree. While we don't have a Verizon store in town I doubt they or any of the others would locate downtown. It will more than likely be something local. Which is fine by me. Bartlesville like Tulsa doesn't attract that many chains downtown yet. Come to think of it, the only chain type entity downtown is a Subway store, and some banks if that really counts.

[DowntownDan]

Generally I would agree. While we don't have a Verizon store in town I doubt they or any of the others would locate downtown. It will more than likely be something local. Which is fine by me. Bartlesville like Tulsa doesn't attract that many chains downtown yet. Come to think of it, the only chain type entity downtown is a Subway store, and some banks if that really counts.

Quiznos, Dominos, and Arby's are others that I can think of.  Rib Crib coming soon, though a chain, I still consider local since it is a local chain.  Those are all I can think of at the moment.  Overall, downtown does a good job of having unique locally owned places to eat, though many of them, mostly in the central business district, are only open for lunch.

[erfalf]

Quiznos, Dominos, and Arby's are others that I can think of.  Rib Crib coming soon, though a chain, I still consider local since it is a local chain.  Those are all I can think of at the moment.  Overall, downtown does a good job of having unique locally owned places to eat, though many of them, mostly in the central business district, are only open for lunch.

Sorry, I was only listing Bartlesville establishments. I know Tulsa has more, and non eateries too (Bartlesville has nothing). Local office furniture, local financial/insurance/accounting, local home improvement, local auto shop, local everything.

[Conan71]

Re: Elote and ADA - ADA is a civil law, so your local building inspector isn't enforcing it- however the International Building Code does have accessibility requirements that effectively require you to meet the ADA requirements.  In the case of Elote, I think they can get away with what they have because in the codes, there are allowances for existing buildings - as long as you don't change the use group, and even then there are exceptions.  That space has been a restaurant since when...the 1950's (?), and since it's still a restaurant, no upgrade is needed.  If someone were to go in and do a major renovation, these requirements would probably need to be met, or if someone wanted to change it into some other use, like a store, they would likely have to modify, but the law also has some leeway in it if it's physically impossible to accomodate the requirements in an existing building, etc., but they have to be met "to the extent possible".  All new buildings definitely should conform. 

Thanks for the explanation.  I know there is some grandfathering, but assumed that would run out with a new tenant, I didn't consider the building being kept for a similar purpose. 

I believe though, Elote` could still be a target for a civil suit by a disabled person if someone wanted to go that far, couldn't they?  Not that I would advocate that nor do I have an axe to grind with them at all.  Just an observation I made the last couple of weeks when eating there a couple of times.

[56packard]

   you guys want to talk about destroying old buildings well well well what about the Circle theater in whittier square it has been combo bastarized 1.They gutted it, the projection room is gone, the commercial architecture style bathrooms are gone (whittier square was built in the commercial architecture style) the apartments above the theater including their floors & the theater"s ceiling were ripped out when they gutted the theater & the lobby was gutted 2. Because of Micky Mouse management and crooked contractors the entire back wall of the theater had to be & was torn down, when they rebuilt it, it was done in the wrong architecture style  with cinder blocks in the wrong color instead of period correct bricks. 3. The facade, oh the facade, at one time back
when it was a porn theater the black glass tile on the front was restorable but the owners back then destroyed it completely when they installed red aluminum siding over it. the poster displays for the theater are gone  (including the lobby card display, the insert poster display & the one sheet display that hung on the south side of the theater) who knows where they are. The marque has been restored but looks nothing like it did in the  50's, 60's, 70's or 80's.
   The real irony of it all is that the circle theater is on the list of historic places, A historic building I think not, it used to be, but get this, right now it is not even a theater there is no screen or movie equipment in it at all, the actual Circle Cinema (the circle theater) is located next door to the south in the adjoining building that used to be a blood bank       

[jacobi]

you guys want to talk about destroying old buildings well well well what about the Circle theater in whittier square it has been combo bastarized 1.They gutted it, the projection room is gone, the commercial architecture style bathrooms are gone (whittier square was built in the commercial architecture style) the apartments above the theater including their floors & the theater"s ceiling were ripped out when they gutted the theater & the lobby was gutted 2. Because of Micky Mouse management and crooked contractors the entire back wall of the theater had to be & was torn down, when they rebuilt it, it was done in the wrong architecture style  with cinder blocks in the wrong color instead of period correct bricks. 3. The facade, oh the facade, at one time back
when it was a porn theater the black glass tile on the front was restorable but the owners back then destroyed it completely when they installed red aluminum siding over it. the poster displays for the theater are gone  (including the lobby card display, the insert poster display & the one sheet display that hung on the south side of the theater) who knows where they are. The marque has been restored but looks nothing like it did in the  50's, 60's, 70's or 80's.
   The real irony of it all is that the circle theater is on the list of historic places, A historic building I think not, it used to be, but get this, right now it is not even a theater there is no screen or movie equipment in it at all, the actual Circle Cinema (the circle theater) is located next door to the south in the adjoining building that used to be a blood bank       

Agreed.  I never got to see the old theater but the new space is pretty stale.  I still like going to catch a movie there and wish that they had the funding to do more, but it seems like they are perpetually half funded and half finished.  I'm pretty excited that they are going to be showing movies at guthrie green.

[AquaMan]

I don't remember it being a porn theater. Not surprised though.

It was a great little square when my friends and I visited it every day in the 1950's-60's. TG&Y, Swinneys, Silver Castle, Otasco, Anthony's, Crown Drug, barber shops, beauty salons, a nearby library, liqour stores, Banfield meat market, Bordens cafeteria, offices, St.Francis church, post office. People lived around and in the square. It reminds me of what they are trying to do with the Pearl district.

Its a tragedy that it was not preserved better. My understanding is that the Circle building was not well built and had structural problems. It was the period of time when asbestos was used as insulation on everything which caused rehab concerns. It seems they had a problem with the mortar as well. Lots of old properties used river water to mix their mortar and the salt content weakened it.

[TulsaRufnex]

I remember as a kid asking mom and dad if we could go see "Fritz the Cat" there... they said "no."