Bell's To Finally Get A New Roller Coaster

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by recyclemichael

Why would you assume the long range plan is for more parking?

The fairgrounds has done a great job in building and growing the last ten years. I would expect this to be a great opportunity for redevelopment.

The new buildings and park look so good, the run-down Bell's just had to fix up or leave. They gave Bell's plenty of opportunities and he just couldn't get his act together.

They reduced his rent again and again and just wanted a viable business plan that showed he was going to make it out of this neglect and dangerous death spiral. He couldn't and needs to go somewhere else.

I doubt there will be fabulous economic incentives for him elsewhere with his history. If there are, moving will be a great excuse to clean up his act.

The area residents would likely block a development of anything larger than a small building. I brief review of the expo master plan shows them to be consolidation their trade center space into the expo building and 2 new facilities. This is quite a ways away from the livestock area to involve that.

If Bells and the Drillers leave, that opens a lot up for development though.

[swake]

Robbie Bell had wanted a timeline of years to move the park to Jenks, and I think he may have been expecting Jenks to help pay for the move.

I also don't think he's going to get any money out of Jenks to help him at all. Any move to Jenks is going to take his own (or borrowed) money. Jenks probably doesn't see the crime that would come with the park as something they want. Plus, that crime would mean Jenks needs more police. With so little retail, Jenks has all it's own budget problems and a larger police force to take care of Bell's is not likely a problem that Jenks wants to pay Robbie Bell to create. I don't think Jenks would turn Bell's away, but, Bell's is on it's own if they want to move to Jenks.

I further really, really question how much, if anything, he can move out in 120 days.

Expo Square wants him out, and are using the media to push the case, why? If they simply wanted him out why does KOTV get his eviction notice before he does?

My money is Expo wants Bells. I'm guessing on some sort of small settlement for Robbie Bell that means he will walk away and leave all the rides. Bells will the either be sold to another operator with a better business plan and better funding, or, Expo will run Bell's themselves. Bell's got more valuable with the approval of a new rollercoaster, but Robbie Bell doesn't have a lease and very little leverage without one.

[pmcalk]

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

The article says he paid 135,000 dollars to the expo last year and was the expos highest paying tenant. What are the other tenants?  135,000 dollars a year is a paltry sum for such a large area of land. How much do the horse barns pull on, the IPE building, the arena? You could build 25 apartment units (off in only one small segment of the parks land area) making 500 a month each and do better, as an example.  And still have plenty of land left over for other things (not saying they should build any apartments btw lol). But surely events and such do better as well. Is the waterpark (which looks much nicer) a tenant?  How much does it make and how many people utilize it each year in comparison to Bells? How much space does it take up in comparison as well?

Unless there's been any recent changes, Big Splash is another tenant, but has had similar financial problems.  Didn't they recently try to renegotiate their lease?

It may look nicer on the outside, but Big Splash needs a major overhaul as well.  We took the kids there closing weekend this year.  Paint was peeling, or gone, trash cans were overflowing with trash, bathrooms were filthy, rides were not working, etc....  The kiddie pool's styrofoam animals had large junks of styrofoam missing.

[carltonplace]

quote:Originally posted by recyclemichael

Why would you assume the long range plan is for more parking?

This quote from the Tulsa World might have led us there:

No decision has been made on how the 10.4 acres that Bell's has leased will be used in the future, Orbison said.

"The easiest thing for it to be used for short-term is parking, and that has been considered," he said. "But we keep our options open for the use of that land for any other appropriate purposes."

quote:Originally posted by pmcalk



Unless there's been any recent changes, Big Splash is another tenant, but has had similar financial problems.  Didn't they recently try to renegotiate their lease?

It may look nicer on the outside, but Big Splash needs a major overhaul as well.  We took the kids there closing weekend this year.  Paint was peeling, or gone, trash cans were overflowing with trash, bathrooms were filthy, rides were not working, etc....  The kiddie pool's styrofoam animals had large junks of styrofoam missing.

The Murphy of Murphy Brothers Carnival rides owns Big Splash. I've heard that EXPO would love for the water park to leave, but then they turn around and sign another no bid contract with Murphy for the midway. So who knows.

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by recyclemichael

Why would you assume the long range plan is for more parking?

The fairgrounds has done a great job in building and growing the last ten years. I would expect this to be a great opportunity for redevelopment.

The new buildings and park look so good, the run-down Bell's just had to fix up or leave. They gave Bell's plenty of opportunities and he just couldn't get his act together.

They reduced his rent again and again and just wanted a viable business plan that showed he was going to make it out of this neglect and dangerous death spiral. He couldn't and needs to go somewhere else.

I doubt there will be fabulous economic incentives for him elsewhere with his history. If there are, moving will be a great excuse to clean up his act.

Randi Miller says Bells will be a parking lot by spring.

[SJC TUL]

I would like to see Bell's move to a location that provides opportunities for growth and expansion.  Obviously, it's had trouble thriving, given the Expo Square and neighborhood constraints.  An amusement park really adds to a region's quality of life.    An in-town traditional amusement park like Bell's is a treasure, although like other Tulsa assets, it seems to be scorned rather than appreciated.  There are a lot of complaints about Bell's on here and many may be justified.  But I'd rather see the park set on a definite road to improvement than be turned into a parking lot.

Thankfully, the people of Bartlesville recognize the value of an amusement park.  Their Kiddie Park is a celebrated rare treasure.  Here are some photos from this summer: Bartlesville's Kiddie Park.

What's most troubling to me about this lease issue is the doubt it casts on the future of Zingo and the gondola skyride.  Both are historically significant installations and are beloved icons of Tulsa, Bell's, and the Tulsa State Fair.  Also of some significance is the log ride, which came from the New York World's Fair of 1964-65.  Whatever the outcome, I want to see Zingo and the skyride survive.  The skyride, incidentally, has been reported for years to be the single biggest money maker at the fair.  

Tulsa skyride:

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by swake

Robbie Bell had wanted a timeline of years to move the park to Jenks, and I think he may have been expecting Jenks to help pay for the move.

I also don't think he's going to get any money out of Jenks to help him at all. Any move to Jenks is going to take his own (or borrowed) money. Jenks probably doesn't see the crime that would come with the park as something they want. Plus, that crime would mean Jenks needs more police. With so little retail, Jenks has all it's own budget problems and a larger police force to take care of Bell's is not likely a problem that Jenks wants to pay Robbie Bell to create. I don't think Jenks would turn Bell's away, but, Bell's is on it's own if they want to move to Jenks.

I further really, really question how much, if anything, he can move out in 120 days.

Expo Square wants him out, and are using the media to push the case, why? If they simply wanted him out why does KOTV get his eviction notice before he does?

My money is Expo wants Bells. I'm guessing on some sort of small settlement for Robbie Bell that means he will walk away and leave all the rides. Bells will the either be sold to another operator with a better business plan and better funding, or, Expo will run Bell's themselves. Bell's got more valuable with the approval of a new rollercoaster, but Robbie Bell doesn't have a lease and very little leverage without one.

That's an insightful post. Unless he has industry interest in buying his rides, 120 days is ridiculous. The business itself is not an easy sell. The best prospect is the landlord. The fairboard is playing mobster rules. However, when you dance with the devil, you can't expect any different i.e. he has had a pretty good deal all these years and squandered the opportunity. They will make him an offer that will be hard to refuse (plus attys fees) and he'll take the money and run. Maybe that will be a grubstake for a Jenks operation.

Nothing good ever lasts for ever. Perhaps the fairboard will lease the park to Murphy Bros. who has experience in the industry or maybe...that was the idea all along.

[Rico]

Your idea would be better than what I have heard H20..

It is going to be the future home of something Tulsa is famous for...

A Suface Parking Lot..........[!]

[BKDotCom]

I heard on the radio this morning that neighbors don't want to see Bells go?!
Can't live with em, can't live without em.

[Johnboy976]

Here's the news on the board:

http://www.kotv.com/news/local/story/?id=114097

Does anyone know what offers they have received? I am sure that Jenks is more than willing (which is perfectly fine), but is there the possibility that they are going to move REALLY far away?

[akupetsky]

Interestingly, the TPC is considering whether Bell's should be designated a landmark.

http://www.tulsapreservationcommission.org/

Wonder if that will make any difference.

[RecycleMichael]

So a City of Tulsa board, funded and staffed by city employees, is going to tell the county what to do on their property that is outside the city limits?

Good luck with that.

[pmcalk]

Designating something as historic doesn't mean you put any restrictions on what you can do with it.  The city has designated many buildings as historic.  Unfortunately, if the owners wanted to tear down those buildings tomorrow, the city could not stop them.  If the TPC votes to designate Bells as a historic landmark, it will be nothing more than a label.

[sgrizzle]

Yeah, there was a push to get the Skelly building declared "historic" and it was featured in preservation magazine, but the owners still tore it down.

[PonderInc]

When Elitch Gardens (which was an old, historic amusement park with incredible gardens/grounds in Denver) moved to a new location, I believe the city helped them acquire the new location.  It was a planned move, not a "hit the road, Jack" sort of thing.  They moved most of the rides, but not the wooden roller coaster.  The old site was redeveloped in a new-urbanist, environmentally friendly way...and they worked hard to preserve the old trees, etc.  The park owners had been wanting to move to a new site with more space, which is understandable.  Eventually it was sold to a big amusement park company.  (In fact, I think it's now a 6 flags park.)

I really don't want Tulsa to lose its history, and our one local amusement park.  It's just one more thing that we absolutely shouldn't gift to the suburbs.  My concern is that this "don't let the door hit ya" attitude is not helpful to the city as a whole.  And while I agree that Bell's is not as spiffy as it once was (or appeared to my youthful eyes), I still think that it's a great addition to our city.  And face it, how many wooden roller coasters are still around?  If another company wanted to buy it and fix it up, that would be great, but I do think they neighborhood constraints would probably limit such a transaction.  

BTW, in my experience, the main noise coming from the fairgrounds is when they have fireworks at the Driller's games...and when they used to have indoor auto racing. (Not sure if they still do that.)  Never did hear the roller coaster...but haven't spent much time in the area in a while.