The State of Oklahoma, and Tulsa should be ashamed

[cannon_fodder]

Bear:

Europe has very nice roads because they have an ideal climate for roads to last, have less traffic, lighter vehicles, and much denser populations.  Not to mention gas taxes that more than triple the cost of fuel and usage restrictions that remove large loads from the roadways. But I must insist, our climate has more to do with the roads than anything... go to a desert down and the roads are usually great.  No water = better roads.

Not that the things you mentioned do not contribute nor that there shouldn't be a way to improve roads for weather.

[okcpulse]

quote:I just finished a trip thru Kansas, Missouri, Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, Michigan and parts of Wisconsin and I can say that without a doubt they all have better roads and bridges than we do.

It isn't even close.

Take Michigan and Wisconsin for example. I was in the far Northern parts of those states. Drove the entire state of Michigan, crossed the Mackinac Bridge, crossed the Michigan U.P. and then into Wisconsin. Anway...those roads are smooth as silk. I'm not just talking the major interstates either. It makes me sick that they have such nice roadways and bridges and we have such total crap. Hell their roads are built in a far worse environment, hello 260 inches of snow in an average year, than ours are and they look flawless.

I'm so mad right now I'm ready to march on OKC and ask them just what the F*** they have been doing with our money for so many years.

Ummm... and you are just now realizing this?  This subject has been churned before on every Oklahoma forum.  

But let me chime in on Missouri.  You probably just got lucky in that state because when I drove through on I-44 through the entire state, especially in St. Louis, the highway surface was complete crap, even worse than most Oklahoma roads.  But the worst state for roads?  It's California.  Just drive around Orange County for a while.  

Oklahoma DOT increased its funding to play catch up on bridges, but it isn't enough to fix every road.  They need to concentrate more funding for our highway system.

And, we are not that poor.  Let go of 1987 Oklahoma.  This is 2007.  We are not hard up for money anymore.  The state legislature needs to learn how to spend.  And sparsely populated?  Look at Kansas.  VERY SPARSE, but better roads.

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by okcpulse

quote:I just finished a trip thru Kansas, Missouri, Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, Michigan and parts of Wisconsin and I can say that without a doubt they all have better roads and bridges than we do.

It isn't even close.

Take Michigan and Wisconsin for example. I was in the far Northern parts of those states. Drove the entire state of Michigan, crossed the Mackinac Bridge, crossed the Michigan U.P. and then into Wisconsin. Anway...those roads are smooth as silk. I'm not just talking the major interstates either. It makes me sick that they have such nice roadways and bridges and we have such total crap. Hell their roads are built in a far worse environment, hello 260 inches of snow in an average year, than ours are and they look flawless.

I'm so mad right now I'm ready to march on OKC and ask them just what the F*** they have been doing with our money for so many years.

Ummm... and you are just now realizing this?  This subject has been churned before on every Oklahoma forum.  

But let me chime in on Missouri.  You probably just got lucky in that state because when I drove through on I-44 through the entire state, especially in St. Louis, the highway surface was complete crap, even worse than most Oklahoma roads.  But the worst state for roads?  It's California.  Just drive around Orange County for a while.  

Oklahoma DOT increased its funding to play catch up on bridges, but it isn't enough to fix every road.  They need to concentrate more funding for our highway system.

And, we are not that poor.  Let go of 1987 Oklahoma.  This is 2007.  We are not hard up for money anymore.  The state legislature needs to learn how to spend.  And sparsely populated?  Look at Kansas.  VERY SPARSE, but better roads.

West Germany used to have 60 million people and was the size of the state of Oregon, yet maintained superior roads and highways with NO SPEED LIMIT.  

Uh, and the extra high fuel taxes are used in European countries to pay for UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE.  Not necessarily roads.

Weather is certainly a factor in Oklahoma.

And, a couple of other things not previously mentioned:

The AGGREGATE used in our concrete is inferior, due to some freak of geology.  

And, the major oil companies are allowed to sell inferior asphalt compound.  That's been a problem all the way back to the 1950's when they were convicted of Asphalt Price Fixing.

In the summer, the asphalt softens until it just gets squished by the big trucks, and you end up with two deep ruts running down the lane.

Of course, rather than alter their tried-and-true formula for building inferior roads with inferior road building materials, their sock-puppet politicians just ask their affiliated useful idiots to promote the idea that the problem will be fixed with MORE MONEY!

[TurismoDreamin]

We need to start using more concrete.

States...and COUNTRIES that use concrete spend a little more on the concrete itself but spend less in long-term maintenance. Concrete is also lighter. Trucks who haul concrete over asphalt get better gas mileage. Asphalt is getting more and more expensive. Just like asphalt, concrete is also recyclable. Unlike asphalt, concrete does not need oil to produce it, thus lowering how much you pay for gas. Concrete is much more visible as a road surface than asphalt (tell me this isn't the truth on a rainy night). Unlike asphalt, concrete does not have small grooves in it for water to seep into which ashpalt does. These grooves provide a place for water to settle in and make them slippery..and I don't even have to explain what happens in the winter time with these grooves. This makes concrete significantly less vulnerable to potholes or other road damage. Concrete's lifespan is more than double that of asphalt. Minnesota has developed concrete that is expected to last for more than 60 years without any major maintenance required...and that's in Minnesota..ya know, the land of a thousand lakes, massive snowfall, etc.

I have noticed that Oklahoma doesn't like to fix problems. Instead, we like to cover them up and pretend they aren't there. Instead of patching and causing a very uneven roadway, we just need to replace that particular section. We also need to get a better understanding of what seamless transitions are.

I myself drive a car with an aftermarket sports suspension. You think you feel the bumps in your stock Toyota Corolla...you have no idea how many uneven transitions, raised manholes, deep potholes, and piss-poor patch jobs there are in the state until you've ridden in a car with a sports suspension.

So ask yourself, is our money being spent wisely??

[Double A]

quote:Originally posted by swake

We have the lowest fuel taxes in the entire nation.

It's really that simple, we have gotten what we have paid for, which is cheap gas and crappy roads, outside of metro Oklahoma City.

Don't forget the pollution, too.

[swake]

quote:Originally posted by Double A

quote:Originally posted by swake

We have the lowest fuel taxes in the entire nation.

It's really that simple, we have gotten what we have paid for, which is cheap gas and crappy roads, outside of metro Oklahoma City.

Don't forget the pollution, too.

And don't forget the pollution too, exactly right.

We should ban coal.

We should raise diesel taxes by 25 cents, put all of it to state road maintenance

And raise fuel taxes by 12 cents
.06 to get rid of turnpikes
.03 to cities and counties for local roads, apportioned by population
and .03 to mass transit


And give a .05 discount to biodiesel and ethanol

[TurismoDreamin]

^Oklahoma legislatures, where are you? Your fuel taxing answers are right there.

[Chicken Little]

quote:Originally posted by TurismoDreamin

^Oklahoma legislatures, where are you? Your fuel taxing answers are right there.

I was gonna say the same thing.  Even my buddy Friendly Bear is talking sense.

Heaving soils are definitely a problem round these parts.  If you were going to do concrete right, you'd want to start with a deep, well-drained base, not our clay gumbo.

And then, apparently, you can use potato-chip ingredients now to seal the concrete.

Another option, rather than struggling with difficult subsoils, is to look for more elastic, yet impermeable, overlays, layers, membranes, etc...I think those guys at SemGroup could figure something out.

[tulsascoot]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

Bear:

Europe has very nice roads because they have an ideal climate for roads to last, have less traffic, lighter vehicles, and much denser populations.  Not to mention gas taxes that more than triple the cost of fuel and usage restrictions that remove large loads from the roadways. But I must insist, our climate has more to do with the roads than anything... go to a desert down and the roads are usually great.  No water = better roads.

Not that the things you mentioned do not contribute nor that there shouldn't be a way to improve roads for weather.

That's not entirely true. There are many parts of Germany with similar weather systems to ours, but I drove from one end to the other (crying every time I filled the gas tank) and the highways were smooth as glass. They simply put better materials in the roads, and engineer them to last 50 years, instead of our 20. They are more expensive, but most Germans are fine with paying taxes as long as they get something out of them, like the Autobahn, It seems to many people around here will demand better roads, but whine when they have to pay for them.

[swake]

quote:Originally posted by tulsascoot

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

Bear:

Europe has very nice roads because they have an ideal climate for roads to last, have less traffic, lighter vehicles, and much denser populations.  Not to mention gas taxes that more than triple the cost of fuel and usage restrictions that remove large loads from the roadways. But I must insist, our climate has more to do with the roads than anything... go to a desert down and the roads are usually great.  No water = better roads.

Not that the things you mentioned do not contribute nor that there shouldn't be a way to improve roads for weather.

That's not entirely true. There are many parts of Germany with similar weather systems to ours, but I drove from one end to the other (crying every time I filled the gas tank) and the highways were smooth as glass. They simply put better materials in the roads, and engineer them to last 50 years, instead of our 20. They are more expensive, but most Germans are fine with paying taxes as long as they get something out of them, like the Autobahn, It seems to many people around here will demand better roads, but whine when they have to pay for them.

One thing the Germans do is have the builder bond the road and pay for any repairs for 30 years, so the incentive to build a good road is really there. Again, more expensive in the short term, but a better road.

[Renaissance]

quote:Originally posted by TurismoDreamin

We also need to get a better understanding of what seamless transitions are.

I myself drive a car with an aftermarket sports suspension. You think you feel the bumps in your stock Toyota Corolla...you have no idea how many uneven transitions, raised manholes, deep potholes, and piss-poor patch jobs there are in the state until you've ridden in a car with a sports suspension.

God this is true.  My ride is low to the ground and has a sports supsension.  I brought it up 69/75 yesterday and even the Indian Nations Turnpike was awful.  The transitions are a joke!

[shadows]

Seems that the Feds rebates to the state and its subdivisions one dollar of the road tax per month for each person counted in the 2000 census.  Where does that money go?

Well Tulsa takes one desk job to supervise one and one half workers in the field.  

Could we be led to believe that this also happens on the state level?  

[sledbet]

Hi! I've noticed a glaring difference when vacationing. You drive over the border and like magic the roads are new-looking and smooth. No bumps or potholes. Next week I'm going to Missouri, can't wait to drive on smooth roads and actually have decent bathroom stops. There's nothing like holding it in while trying to speed to the McDonalds that's 30 minutes away.