Getting people to move to Tulsa

[Conan71]

Every city is unique.  We keep using other metro areas as a yardstick of what Tulsa should be.  Instead living in envy and trying to adapt attractions, which seem to work in other cities, to ours- why not dig deep and really try to do something which is totally unique to Tulsa?  

For one thing, we don't have mountains or oceans which seem to be an attraction for many (out of the cities OurTulsa cited, all are located on or very near a large body of water).  One reason coastal cities grew early on was due to waterways being essential to commerce.  As time has gone on, they've figured out ways to have entertainment, shopping, and highrise buildings co-exist with shipping and fishing which adds a hip factor.

I don't buy into "Tulsa is a boring place."  We have a variety of night life options not terribly unlike Austin or Memphis.  Tulsa just isn't Austin or Memphis.  Keep in mind, Beale Street in Memphis doesn't comprise of much more block space than the Blue Dome district.

Perception is another thing which kills downtown at every turn.  The misconception is that homeless people wander the central part of downtown like zombies in the night.

There has to be a singular comprehensive plan to add vitality to an area of a city.  Build housing?  Wait, there's nothing to do after 5pm.  Build coffee shops, book stores, arts theater?  Wait, no one is downtown after 5pm.  It's another chicken v. egg issue.  Which do you do first to attract the other?  Neither, you get one developer with vision and money to do both at the same time.

However, sustainability of a housing and entertainment district has to attract more than 200 residents at a time.  There is no way ten or so businesses could keep their doors open with such a small pool of potential customers.  The thinking has to be: "How do we get 1000 people to move downtown at a time?"

Tulsa seems to be schizophrenic in what we think will put a new mark on the city.  We needed a pedestrian main mall to make central downtown walkable and more inviting to stimulate business and keep people downtown after working hours.

Whoops, we don't need a main mall, we need a main street people can drive down to get to work and to shop or eat.  

Two entities I think have been allowed to operate as BAU for too long are the MTCC and DTU.  Jim Norton is stale as last week's bread.  Why anyone keeps contributing to DTU is entirely beyond me.

My boss related why he thinks MTCC isn't a great conduit of commerce.  After his father passed away, his mother became the majority share-holder in the company, making it by definition a disadvantaged, female-owned business.  We are also located in a federally-defined HUBzone.  These are both designations which will help a small business compete on equal footing for Federal government contracts and purchases and actually gives small business a slight advantage on bidding.

My boss and his mother approached the chamber to ask for assistance in gaining the proper designations.  They replied: "We don't know how to do that, that's really not our job."

Think about it, every single Federal contract or purchase which makes it's way into the hands of a Tulsa company is Federal money which comes into the economy.  That becomes payroll, payroll becomes sales tax, etc.  It's good for the Tulsa economy and helps all of us gain from necessary Federal expenditures which will go other communities around the country if we can't compete on equal footing or have a slight advantage.

The Chamber of Commerce is responsible for helping create commerce.  To me that should also be extended to helping established businesses find new ways to bring revenue into Tulsa's economy from other areas.

[TheArtist]

Well said OurTulsa. And I too think every city is unique and that we shouldnt try to copy.... to an extent. Some things are basic though. A lively urban district. A place with a view and things to do, it doesnt have to be on a hillside set of stairs like in Rome or Paris, but someplace would be nice. An arts district with blocks of shops and galleries. We dont have to have the same shops and galleries, the exact same layout, but a real arts district would be nice. Waterfront attractions, we dont have to try and mimick San Antonios Riverwalk, or an oceanside pier, but we have a great river and something great along it would be a no brainer, it could also act as that "gathering place with a view". That would be unique in and of itself. Certain practices and even building heights have just been proven over time to work. To make life more liveable and enjoyable in a city. Like having most buildings be 6 stories. Look at photos of any great city and see how tall the buildings are in the "best" areas. Paris, London, Rome, Cairo, Washington, Baltimore,,,, Heck I have heard of several US cities that have recently passed zoning requirements stating that in some areas the buildings are to be 6 stories with some retail and businesses on the ground floors. Its what creates just the right amount of density, street life and population to create a liveable area that supports cafes, businesses,etc. Its not trying to be like other cities and not being unique. Its doing the things that have been proven over centuries to work, that people really enjoy, that prove their worth beyond the fads of the day.

I think the city should mostly focus on doing some sort of Form Based Codes and other forms of Zoning to help nudge development in certain directions. It should work on doing small things that enhance budding arts districts, club areas etc. Work on doing infrastructure like the Pearl District plan that will create a "venue" around which certain types of development and urban renewal can grow around.

Zoning and codes can give businesses and people the security to know what an area will grow into so they can build with confidence, have some faith that the next neighbor or person to build will continue what has been started. When these areas begin to take hold and grow the city can then do things to enhance them. Parking garages that fit the theme and flow. Unique lighting features, parks, fountains, public art. The city can formulate over all plans to help growth nodes, where a rail station may be placed some day so that higher density development can begin to happen in that area.

It really needs to promote what it has, not just to outsiders but to the locals. If things are promoted they tend to be valued more and then naturally become enhanced, added on to and grow well.

[booWorld]

quote:Originally posted by Oil Capital

The current re-build of Boston Avenue, insisting on maintaining four lanes of traffic, two parking lanes and narrow sidewalks, killing essentially forever any chance of sidewalk cafes or any other urban life on that street.

The current Boston Maul project is a waste of tax dollars, but I don't think it is safe to say that it will "forever" be in its current (re)-configuration.  After all, we re-configured Main three times over the course of 40 years.  These re-builds don't last long in downtown Tulsa.  The new work on Boston is low quality.  It won't be around forever.

[perspicuity85]

quote:Originally posted by pmcalk
And "Comfortably Cosmopolitan" doesn't do that for you?

Actually, as someone who has studied marketing at the college level, I think "Comfortably Cosmopolitan" is a good place to start.  Tulsa definitely has a sort of cosmopolitan feel to it in certain areas of the city.  That cosmo feel is unique to our region, something that can be well marketed to nearby metro areas: OKC, NW Ark, Springfield, Joplin, Wichita, Ft. Smith, and certainly all of Oklahoma.  The problem is, many of Tulsa's own citizens would laugh at the juxtaposition of the words "cosmopolitan" and "Tulsa."  The thing that really gets me is: it's not cool to like Tulsa in the mind of many citizens.  Why?  That's a good question, but I think it has a lot to do with the constantly publicized Tulsa saviors, such as The Channels, the "Tulsa Project" of the 90s, etc.  These type of projects are creative, but usually don't materialize, and end up costing the city credibility in the long run.

Personally, I think Tulsa should focus on what assets it currently has and market those assets.  After all, "comfortably cosmopolitan" refers to an attribute Tulsa has had for decades.  The cultural infrastructure of Tulsa is there, the city just needs to market it aggressively.  

[TheArtist]

I actually liked the "Comfortably Cosmopolitan" thing. But that was dropped in favor of the "I Am Tulsa" branding slogan.

[bacjz00]

The "energy" that downtown Austin seems to have unlimited quantities of, stems from the 30,000+ student public university that sits at its doorstep.   Not to mention the tens of thousands a year that choose to stay in Austin after graduation for the good atmosphere and paying jobs.  

Someone used to say that people's biggest mistake in this town was thinking that there is just ONE thing that could turn Tulsa around.  Well, I disagree.  The ONE thing that has doomed Tulsa from the very start, when it comes to the type of energized, urban development that so many on this board crave, is the lack of a public and residential 4 year university inside the city.  It is and probably always will be one of the biggest reasons that Tulsa appears to fall short on luring people to the city and retain quality jobs.  

Traditional higher education passed this city by years ago and IMO, that has been the SINGLE biggest failure of our historical city leaders. Can you imagine the energy in and around the city core if Oklahoma State University was here in Tulsa instead of in Stillwater?  All that money that Boone Pickens is donating to that campus could be direct infusion into our local economy and would help create an educated and energetic foundation of college graduates in an urban environment.  Sorry to say, but that's what makes cities grow and prospser, plain and simple.  

I do realize that complaining about how things should have be doesn't smell of productivity, but sometimes I just need to vent.   It makes me sick at my stomach that Tulsa was passed over years ago for higher education.

[TURobY]

So, is there any particular reason Tulsa doesn't have a public 4-year university? Can Tulsa not have one, or is there just not demand for it?

[bacjz00]

quote:Originally posted by TURobY

So, is there any particular reason Tulsa doesn't have a public 4-year university?

Beats me...maybe Tulsa pissed off the regents in the early days.  Maybe because back then they went where the land was the cheapest (i.e. FREE). Bottom line is that Tulsa seemed to be the LAST consideration when the regents set up 4 year universities and colleges throughout the state.

Here is a list:

Research Universities
Oklahoma State University - Stillwater
University of Oklahoma - Norman

Regional Universities

Cameron University - Lawton
East Central University - Shawnee
Langston University - Langston
Northeastern State University - Tahlequah
Northwestern Oklahoma State University - Alva
Oklahoma Panhandle State University - Goodwell
Rogers State University - Claremore
Southeastern Oklahoma State University - Durant
Southwestern Oklahoma State University - Weatherford
University of Central Oklahoma - Edmond
University of Science and Arts of Oklahoma - Chickasha

quote:Originally posted by TURobY

Can Tulsa not have one, or is there just not demand for it?

The reality is that we have public higher education in Tulsa now, it's just not traditional.  OSU-Tulsa and OU-Tulsa are both options for undergrad and post-grad. degree programs.  And now NSU has a campus in Broken Arrow.  So it seems that there is demand for the classes but there was never a single, centralized effort to bring a public, traditional undergraduate 4-year university to Tulsa.  From the looks of it, OSU-Tulsa is going to stay a commuter school, but I hear folks saying that it could blossom into more of a campus environment, complete with dormitories.  I just don't see that happening.

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by TURobY

So, is there any particular reason Tulsa doesn't have a public 4-year university? Can Tulsa not have one, or is there just not demand for it?

listen, all towns have their place.  stillwater is where you get educated, tulsa is where you work and raise a family, and OKC is where you die.  I don't know why Tulsa tries to be all three (and as a result does poorly at all of them)

[bacjz00]

quote:Originally posted by inteller

quote:Originally posted by TURobY

So, is there any particular reason Tulsa doesn't have a public 4-year university? Can Tulsa not have one, or is there just not demand for it?

listen, all towns have their place.  stillwater is where you get educated, tulsa is where you work and raise a family, and OKC is where you die.  I don't know why Tulsa tries to be all three (and as a result does poorly at all of them)

What do you have against dying in Tulsa?

[]

[TheArtist]

quote:Originally posted by TURobY

So, is there any particular reason Tulsa doesn't have a public 4-year university? Can Tulsa not have one, or is there just not demand for it?

I can definitely tell you are younger lol. You dont realize what it was like before we had even the small, "starter" universities we have now. How people complained about not being able to go to school here. How you basically had to leave Tulsa to get an education, unless you could afford and get into TU or wanted to go to ORU. How businesses complained that we needed one to be competitive. You dont remember bus loads of people going down the turnpike to protest and demand that Tulsa be allowed to have a 4 year public university. (finally allowing us to have UCAT)

I have fought and argued that Tulsa be allowed to have a 4 year public university for ages. I too believe it was a huge mistake to not allow Tulsa to have one. I agree that allowing OSU Tulsa to expand would be a huge benefit for the area. The thing is, that even if we were to vote to spend money to expand the university in Tulsa there would be resistance against it by the regents. Unless you create something new, they consider it competing with programs at one of the other universities that the state is trying to grow.  

There is a huge demand for a 4 year public university in Tulsa.  TCC is the largest 2year university in the state, perhaps one of the largest in the region. (doesnt Tulsa county pay for TCC? not the state) The state decided that Tulsa shouldnt have one ages ago. We fought and screamed for ages to try and get a 4year public university for Tulsa. OSU Tulsa, OU Tulsa, etc. have continued to grow as they have been allowed to offer new courses and the state has dolled out money to allow them to expand. (OSU Stillwater has been declining in attendance btw)

Back in the day when all of this was being arranged it was preferred that you kept those pesky college age students away from a genteel city. Tulsa was so wealthy and prosperous in its early years it could buy anything it wanted and attract all the money, businesses, and educated people in the world that it desired. There was no need to consider a college as an economic engine. Once the number and system of colleges was laid out. Then you ran into a fixed set of interests fighting over a pot of funds. As the pot of funds got smaller, in order for the colleges to compete with other colleges in other states, it became ever more difficult to consider creating another 4 year university and those colleges that already existed were not about to let their piece of the pie get smaller.

But ever since I can remember, even in the 70s. People had begun to notice that Tulsa was in trouble if it didnt get a college. The prosperity of the last oil boom softened that concern, but when the last oil bust hit it became painfully obvious that we needed to do things differently in this city and not rely on just one or two industries. Its become more and more obvious that if Tulsa wants to compete for young people and businesses it needs to have a good sized, graduate university.  

Stillwater also has the concern, and its a real one, that if OSU Tulsa expands it will lose a lot of students. A college right near the core of a city is going to be more desirable than one out in the boonies. This scenario is being tip-toed around and not spoken about, basically ignored. But everyone knows it and nobody wants to face what could happen. So most new expansion projects still go to the Stillwater campus and Tulsa will have to fight dearly for every shilling if it wants to grow. To the detriment of Tulsa and the State and to OSU if you ask me.    

I dont mind the system of having OSU, OU, NSU and TCC being seperated at the moment. However I can see something like this happening.... Just read in the paper about how some TCC students are staying on the TU campus at the housing there. They may take some classes at TCC and TU and eventually transfer to TU to get their 4 year or graduate degrees. As long as TU has the dorm space, why not and this allows some TCC students to have that college campus experience.

OSU Tulsa and the TCC metro campus could also share dorms. The campuses are not that far apart. I have been on college campuses that are larger than the distances between downtown OSU and downtown TCC.  Already you see on the TCC websites both the logos of TCC and OSU side by side. All classes are made to easily tranfer to OSU. If you made the TCC metro even "psychologically" more a part of OSU Tulsa it would link the two colleges together and essentially create a 4 year public university.

The next expansion on the OSU Tulsa campus is supposed to be dorms. Hopefully this will actually happen, and soon.

Already I have heard stories of more and more young people who are able to, and who have chosen to, stay in Tulsa for their educational needs. Things are looking up. We just need to keep pushing. Especially for OSU Tulsa to grow.

[sauerkraut]

Tulsa's population fell alot in the past 10 years. Maybe to get it to grow they can open up the state & city to all immigrants to re-settle the city as others move away. That could be one big plus of illegal aliens they can help the city grow and expand.[]

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by sauerkraut

Tulsa's population fell alot in the past 10 years. Maybe to get it to grow they can open up the state & city to all immigrants to re-settle the city as others move away. That could be one big plus of illegal aliens they can help the city grow and expand.[]

I don't think that's going to happen.  We just gave the illegal immigrants their bus ticket out of the state with HB-1804.

If the anecdotal evidence is to be believed, Tulsa's about to take a hit of about 25,000 illegal Mexican immigrants leaving the area.