South Tulsa dense?

[sgrizzle]

Drove down & around 71st this weekend and noticed something. While not urban, walkable or sustainable, 71st is looking for more density.

71st & 109th - was slated to be a DR's office. Is now a 5-6 unit retail center (with a Chipotle's)

SE of 68th & Memorial - was a oft-closed restaurant location, is now another multi-unit retail center.

91st & Memorial - what was a Homeland is becoming another retail center with Panera bread and several other tenants.

66th & Memorial - Mervyns is becoming Gold's Gym plus a few other included tenants.

66th-69th & Memorial - This neglected shopping center is getting a major overhaul including changes to traffic flow, walkability and visability. Blockbuster is becoming another Ruby Tuesday's.

71st & 89th - Parking lot is now Cheesecake Factory





While none of these is a major improvement on their own, I find the fact that every development is trying to pack more people into the same spaces (and making traffic worse) how long until these same developers come fully around to understand true urban density?

[TheArtist]

Does Tulsa allow mixed use structures to exist in that part of town? Aka, living over shops.

Are there still height restrictions in place for that area. Dilliards was fined when it added its third floor and the remodel went 1 foot over the height restriction.

Also, I have been in converstations with people where the topic of parking lot and street arrangements in the area should allow for more connectivity and walkability. Sometimes, berms, walls or fences break up one development from another, or "streets" and parking lots that run in front of one shopping center do not connect to another.

Will indeed be interesting to see how an area like this will evolve over the next 20 years. Are there regulations and zoning restrictions that will prevent a true, dense, mixed use, walkable environment from developing? Could there be some put in place that will help encourage the area to become more so over time?

"Enabling" that area to become more dense, mixed use, and walkable would also be a consideration if you ever wanted to connect that area with a mass transit rail system. A system that would work anyway.

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

Does Tulsa allow mixed use structures to exist in that part of town? Aka, living over shops.

Are there still height restrictions in place for that area. Dilliards was fined when it added its third floor and the remodel went 1 foot over the height restriction.

Also, I have been in converstations with people where the topic of parking lot and street arrangements in the area should allow for more connectivity and walkability. Sometimes, berms, walls or fences break up one development from another, or "streets" and parking lots that run in front of one shopping center do not connect to another.

Will indeed be interesting to see how an area like this will evolve over the next 20 years. Are there regulations and zoning restrictions that will prevent a true, dense, mixed use, walkable environment from developing? Could there be some put in place that will help encourage the area to become more so over time?

"Enabling" that area to become more dense, mixed use, and walkable would also be a consideration if you ever wanted to connect that area with a mass transit rail system. A system that would work anyway.

I don't think true mixed use is allowed, or at least not presently zoned. I don't know about height limitations but the Village is increasing their building heights substantially for visibility reasons.

I should've added that 71st and Sheridan has a parking lot turning into a drug warehouse.

[sauerkraut]

Your correct. Tulsa is booming there. However, I don't like the strange lights that are offten seen there at all hours of the day, no one can explain them. The few sidewalks there seem to sag after a few years. many roads are narrow and crumbling. The soil seems too sandy or something. I would not want to build a project there. Some one needs to check out the geography there.

[Rowdy]

[swake]

quote:Originally posted by sauerkraut

Your correct. Tulsa is booming there. However, I don't like the strange lights that are offten seen there at all hours of the day, no one can explain them. The few sidewalks there seem to sag after a few years. many roads are narrow and crumbling. The soil seems too sandy or something. I would not want to build a project there. Some one needs to check out the geography there.

Have you even been to Tulsa in the last 20 years? 71stStreet is narrow and crumbling?

It is a newer six lane divided concrete street with raised medians and turning lanes in nearly perfect shape. If there should be a complaint about the roads in that part of town it's that the traffic can be oppressive. And what are talking about with "lights during the day"?

[pmcalk]

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

Does Tulsa allow mixed use structures to exist in that part of town? Aka, living over shops.

Are there still height restrictions in place for that area. Dilliards was fined when it added its third floor and the remodel went 1 foot over the height restriction.

Also, I have been in converstations with people where the topic of parking lot and street arrangements in the area should allow for more connectivity and walkability. Sometimes, berms, walls or fences break up one development from another, or "streets" and parking lots that run in front of one shopping center do not connect to another.

Will indeed be interesting to see how an area like this will evolve over the next 20 years. Are there regulations and zoning restrictions that will prevent a true, dense, mixed use, walkable environment from developing? Could there be some put in place that will help encourage the area to become more so over time?

"Enabling" that area to become more dense, mixed use, and walkable would also be a consideration if you ever wanted to connect that area with a mass transit rail system. A system that would work anyway.

I don't think true mixed use is allowed, or at least not presently zoned. I don't know about height limitations but the Village is increasing their building heights substantially for visibility reasons.

I should've added that 71st and Sheridan has a parking lot turning into a drug warehouse.

While you cannot do mixed use with straight zoning (except by special exception), PUDs do allow mixed use.  Since most of the area is already zoned under a PUD, adding mixed use wouldn't be that difficult.  Still, until the long term traffic and parking problems are solved, I don't expect many requests for mixed use.  Who would want to live above a store surrounded by a parking lot and bumper to bumper cars?

[swake]

quote:Originally posted by pmcalk

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

Does Tulsa allow mixed use structures to exist in that part of town? Aka, living over shops.

Are there still height restrictions in place for that area. Dilliards was fined when it added its third floor and the remodel went 1 foot over the height restriction.

Also, I have been in converstations with people where the topic of parking lot and street arrangements in the area should allow for more connectivity and walkability. Sometimes, berms, walls or fences break up one development from another, or "streets" and parking lots that run in front of one shopping center do not connect to another.

Will indeed be interesting to see how an area like this will evolve over the next 20 years. Are there regulations and zoning restrictions that will prevent a true, dense, mixed use, walkable environment from developing? Could there be some put in place that will help encourage the area to become more so over time?

"Enabling" that area to become more dense, mixed use, and walkable would also be a consideration if you ever wanted to connect that area with a mass transit rail system. A system that would work anyway.

I don't think true mixed use is allowed, or at least not presently zoned. I don't know about height limitations but the Village is increasing their building heights substantially for visibility reasons.

I should've added that 71st and Sheridan has a parking lot turning into a drug warehouse.

While you cannot do mixed use with straight zoning (except by special exception), PUDs do allow mixed use.  Since most of the area is already zoned under a PUD, adding mixed use wouldn't be that difficult.  Still, until the long term traffic and parking problems are solved, I don't expect many requests for mixed use.  Who would want to live above a store surrounded by a parking lot and bumper to bumper cars?

Inteller would

[inteller]

hell north Bixby doesn't appear to have height restrictions, and the Regal Plaza is starting off dense.  Say what you will about the look of the buildings, but they did that plaza right.

[TheArtist]

quote:Originally posted by pmcalk

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

Does Tulsa allow mixed use structures to exist in that part of town? Aka, living over shops.

Are there still height restrictions in place for that area. Dilliards was fined when it added its third floor and the remodel went 1 foot over the height restriction.

Also, I have been in converstations with people where the topic of parking lot and street arrangements in the area should allow for more connectivity and walkability. Sometimes, berms, walls or fences break up one development from another, or "streets" and parking lots that run in front of one shopping center do not connect to another.

Will indeed be interesting to see how an area like this will evolve over the next 20 years. Are there regulations and zoning restrictions that will prevent a true, dense, mixed use, walkable environment from developing? Could there be some put in place that will help encourage the area to become more so over time?

"Enabling" that area to become more dense, mixed use, and walkable would also be a consideration if you ever wanted to connect that area with a mass transit rail system. A system that would work anyway.

I don't think true mixed use is allowed, or at least not presently zoned. I don't know about height limitations but the Village is increasing their building heights substantially for visibility reasons.

I should've added that 71st and Sheridan has a parking lot turning into a drug warehouse.

While you cannot do mixed use with straight zoning (except by special exception), PUDs do allow mixed use.  Since most of the area is already zoned under a PUD, adding mixed use wouldn't be that difficult.  Still, until the long term traffic and parking problems are solved, I don't expect many requests for mixed use.  Who would want to live above a store surrounded by a parking lot and bumper to bumper cars?

One would assume that if a different building or group of buildings were built they would also redo the parking. The S W corner where the furniture store is, that shopping center could be taken out and have mid rise apartments or condos with shops etc. on the ground floor and more shops surrounding a central plaza. Would look very nice and would probably make more money than what is there now.

[spoonbill]

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

Does Tulsa allow mixed use structures to exist in that part of town? Aka, living over shops.

Are there still height restrictions in place for that area. Dilliards was fined when it added its third floor and the remodel went 1 foot over the height restriction.

Also, I have been in converstations with people where the topic of parking lot and street arrangements in the area should allow for more connectivity and walkability. Sometimes, berms, walls or fences break up one development from another, or "streets" and parking lots that run in front of one shopping center do not connect to another.

Will indeed be interesting to see how an area like this will evolve over the next 20 years. Are there regulations and zoning restrictions that will prevent a true, dense, mixed use, walkable environment from developing? Could there be some put in place that will help encourage the area to become more so over time?

"Enabling" that area to become more dense, mixed use, and walkable would also be a consideration if you ever wanted to connect that area with a mass transit rail system. A system that would work anyway.

The only restrictions in Tulsa are the ones that your develpment consultant or attorney is unsuccessfull in changing.  Zoning restrictions, uses, and density can all be changed with the wave of a pen if you know how.

There are several developers and development consulting companies in Tulsa that are very successfull in making these changes.  All it costs is money and some time.  A land development company with a zoning specialist can usually make a compelling argument for a zoning change with success.

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by spoonbill

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

Does Tulsa allow mixed use structures to exist in that part of town? Aka, living over shops.

Are there still height restrictions in place for that area. Dilliards was fined when it added its third floor and the remodel went 1 foot over the height restriction.

Also, I have been in converstations with people where the topic of parking lot and street arrangements in the area should allow for more connectivity and walkability. Sometimes, berms, walls or fences break up one development from another, or "streets" and parking lots that run in front of one shopping center do not connect to another.

Will indeed be interesting to see how an area like this will evolve over the next 20 years. Are there regulations and zoning restrictions that will prevent a true, dense, mixed use, walkable environment from developing? Could there be some put in place that will help encourage the area to become more so over time?

"Enabling" that area to become more dense, mixed use, and walkable would also be a consideration if you ever wanted to connect that area with a mass transit rail system. A system that would work anyway.

The only restrictions in Tulsa are the ones that your develpment consultant or attorney is unsuccessfull in changing.  Zoning restrictions, uses, and density can all be changed with the wave of a pen if you know how.

There are several developers and development consulting companies in Tulsa that are very successfull in making these changes.  All it costs is money and some time.  A land development company with a zoning specialist can usually make a compelling argument for a zoning change with success.

then why have zoning?

[spoonbill]

quote:Originally posted by inteller

quote:Originally posted by spoonbill

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

Does Tulsa allow mixed use structures to exist in that part of town? Aka, living over shops.

Are there still height restrictions in place for that area. Dilliards was fined when it added its third floor and the remodel went 1 foot over the height restriction.

Also, I have been in converstations with people where the topic of parking lot and street arrangements in the area should allow for more connectivity and walkability. Sometimes, berms, walls or fences break up one development from another, or "streets" and parking lots that run in front of one shopping center do not connect to another.

Will indeed be interesting to see how an area like this will evolve over the next 20 years. Are there regulations and zoning restrictions that will prevent a true, dense, mixed use, walkable environment from developing? Could there be some put in place that will help encourage the area to become more so over time?

"Enabling" that area to become more dense, mixed use, and walkable would also be a consideration if you ever wanted to connect that area with a mass transit rail system. A system that would work anyway.

The only restrictions in Tulsa are the ones that your develpment consultant or attorney is unsuccessfull in changing.  Zoning restrictions, uses, and density can all be changed with the wave of a pen if you know how.

There are several developers and development consulting companies in Tulsa that are very successfull in making these changes.  All it costs is money and some time.  A land development company with a zoning specialist can usually make a compelling argument for a zoning change with success.

then why have zoning?

Requires the developer to exicute signifigant will, resources, and show the ability to present a coherent and concise argument for his/her development.  Successfully completing this exercise directly relates to how the developer will be able to market the concept once it is built.  There are many great development ideas that respect logical zoning practices that will never see the light of day.  Our system requires a specific "cult of personality."

Remember, 70% of the public votes with emotion.  Logic is easily swept away.  Presenting to city counsels and planning commissions is no different than presenting to the general public.  They are highly susceptible to a presenter that can create a brilliant mental image of his/her concept.  Wether it actually makes good sense is of no consequence.  

That said, it is the responsibility of the developer or development company to practice ethical development and respect the community.  Developers who do this are successful for many many years and they gain the respect of the communities that they serve.  They are probably 10% of the development community.  The rest are "one hit wonders."  

If you look to government to police development, you are fighting a losing battle.  To a developer, zoning is simply another hurtle to be overcome like flood plane, topography, or easements.  It can be calculated in dollars and added into the development budget.