Gimme the Box

[jne]

I just 'StumbledUpon' a website a while back that was nothing but electrical box art. May we request one of these green canvases?
I'm trying to find it again.  Here are a couple.

http://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WM2GN2

http://www.dwarbi.com/Australia/Brisbane/Brisbane-Pages/Image3.html

[patric]

The (Oklahoma Corporation) commission's spokesman Matt Skinner said it would investigate AEP-PSO's response to the storm when the utility seeks to recover costs associated with the restoration.

Such detailed reviews of utility disaster performance are becoming common in Missouri, where the Public Service Commission has issued reports following storms in 2002, 2004. 2005 and 2006.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectID=11&articleID=071217_1_A9_hSome57730


OK, so expect to get the bill for having utility trucks from all corners of the continental US rebuild our electrical system to pre-ice storm status, just to watch it fail again with spring storms.

If we figure in this expense, add the cost of an ineffective tree trimming program, replacing the contents of everyone's fridge and other failure-related costs, and get AEP to actually cite real competitive (i.e., non-inflated) costs of undergrounding, will it still be "too expensive" to bury lines?

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by patric


OK, so expect to get the bill for having utility trucks from all corners of the continental US rebuild our electrical system to pre-ice storm status, just to watch it fail again with spring storms.

Consider the remaining trees are being skinned to the bone, there won't be much left to cause outages.

quote:Originally posted by patric


If we figure in this expense, add the cost of an ineffective tree trimming program, replacing the contents of everyone's fridge and other failure-related costs, and get AEP to actually cite real competitive (i.e., non-inflated) costs of undergrounding, will it still be "too expensive" to bury lines?

Trees in my neighborhood were trimmed and the lines stayed up. Seems pretty effective to me.

So you were ready to raise electrical rates in advance to underground everything?

[Double A]

quote:Originally posted by recyclemichael


My power in east Tulsa is out.

When did you move into Council District 6?

[Chicken Little]

For a fair assessment, they should also include lost productivity.  Workers were either off dealing with disastor related issues or without power at their places of business.

There are a handful of feasibility studies out there that look at the costs of burying lines:

North Carolina state doc, which seems to rely on data provided by Duke and other NC power companies.

Edison Electric Institute, and industry-comprised advocacy group.

Long Island Power

Florida Power and Light

The industry involvement in all of these reports, even the North Carolina "independent" study, taints the findings, IMO.  Nevertheless, they seem to say that burying lines would result in a doubling of your electric bill.

The other problems with these studies that I think are apparent:

- They are looking at system-wide, and/or statewide costs of burying everything.  Not concentrating on strategic improvements in urban areas with higher population concentrations.  When you look at burying entire systems, you immediately get costs which make undergrounding look "prohibitively expensive", i.e., in the tens of billions.

- The ones that address the benefits of undergrounding say that aesthetics are the major benefit.  But there's a slew of secondary benefits that they are not looking at, from spoiled meat to lost productivity, much of which is noted in this thread.

- The studies cite water infiltration from hurricanes as a major reason why underground utilities are more vulnerable and less reliable than you might think.  But this is not an issue in this part of the country.

It might be valuable if a few of us turkeys would read through this stuff and offer some opinions.  I'd hate to see the Corporation Commission's pay for a "report" that tells us exactly what the utiility companies want.

[patric]

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

Trees in my neighborhood were trimmed and the lines stayed up. Seems pretty effective to me.

We had our 3-year trimming just last month.
Our utility pole was shattered Sunday by "trimmed" trees.  Seemed pretty ineffective to me.

[pmcalk]

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

quote:Originally posted by recyclemichael

I thought it was a green box for every fifth house. That would make it well over a hundred boxes for Maple Ridge.

Up with trees...Down with poles! (No offense to people from Poland intended).

27 boxes in front yards:
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=070807_1_A9_hWhat80780

I believe that number was just for the first of three parts to cover only south Maple Ridge (North MR--15th to 21st--was never slated to get boxes).  All together, there were to be close to 100 for the area between 21st & 31st, Riverside to Peoria.  Again, not saying they shouldn't have done it, but just that their concerns weren't frivolous.

[Double A]

quote:Originally posted by pmcalk

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

quote:Originally posted by recyclemichael

I thought it was a green box for every fifth house. That would make it well over a hundred boxes for Maple Ridge.

Up with trees...Down with poles! (No offense to people from Poland intended).

27 boxes in front yards:
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=070807_1_A9_hWhat80780

I believe that number was just for the first of three parts to cover only south Maple Ridge (North MR--15th to 21st--was never slated to get boxes).  All together, there were to be close to 100 for the area between 21st & 31st, Riverside to Peoria.  Again, not saying they shouldn't have done it, but just that their concerns weren't frivolous.

Still completely frivolous IMO. It still burns me up that they copied Stop the Chop for their absurdly illegitimate campaign.

[brunoflipper]

i'm starting a "Stop the Snobs" campaign...

first they fight the trees and then the boxes... then WHACK, mother nature scores on both counts... buncha' freakin trust-fund, busy-bodies...

i have to wonder if the planned removal/trimming had taken place if some of woodward park's damage would have been mitigated...

and the boxes? a no brainer... i know a patient who lost her power/phone and thus, her bi-pap and any ability to get help... she was in respiratory distress overnight, got out inm the morning to a neighbor... went the doc that morning and was shipped from there to the ER... she died that afternoon... she'd have taken a green box...

woodside/ SoMaR/ forest hills tools screwed us all... these are the people wipe their donkey with the money it takes to rebuild a weatherhead, buy a generator, and spend a week in a hotel... they have electrician's on retainer... the irony of it is, i know two people in SoMaR, who both have permanent diesel generators in their backyards (talk about ugly as ****) who fought "the box"... how sweet of them...

the boxes should go in and ALL of the utilities should be buried...

"Stop the Snobs!"

[TUalum0982]

quote:Originally posted by PonderInc

This morning in the shower (I still don't have power, but I do have hot water!), I was thinking about "the box."  It occured to me that I might not mind a green box defacing my yard so much if it meant never losing power (or not having to worry about my neighbor--who is 97 years old and on hospice--losing power).  Then I had an epiphany.

Entrepreneurial alert: genius idea conceived in shower to follow!

Who says the green boxes have to be boxes?  Why not invent some different sorts of boxes that look like real landscaping stones?  (I've seen some really cheap looking fake rocks that cover up gas meters...but I'm talking high-quality, Vegas-style fake rocks!)  You could match your fake boulder to the natural geology of the region...choosing from simulated limestone, sandstone, granite, etc.  (The folks who like a country motif could have fake hay bales...) Maybe someone could invent a box covered in fake elephant grass or fake bamboo...to better blend in with surrounding landscaping efforts.

I'm thinking the time for this idea has come!

OK, venture capitalists, I'm awaiting your calls...operators are standing by...

my parents have the green box and have been without power since last mon morning around 3am.  they live at 81st and 33rd W Ave.  OG&E customer service is horrible.  Atleast when you call, they could give you a rough estimate of when it will be back on.

[patric]

quote:Originally posted by TUalum0982

my parents have the green box and have been without power since last mon morning around 3am.  they live at 81st and 33rd W Ave.

It takes more than just burying lines around the neighborhood -- the feeders upstream need to be underground, as well, to be considered a reliable system.  That's why people are so upset that major street repairs dont include undergrounding and removing the poles (sometimes only inches from the curb, and thus frequently hit by cars).

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by brunoflipper

i'm starting a "Stop the Snobs" campaign...

first they fight the trees and then the boxes... then WHACK, mother nature scores on both counts... buncha' freakin trust-fund, busy-bodies...

i have to wonder if the planned removal/trimming had taken place if some of woodward park's damage would have been mitigated...

and the boxes? a no brainer... i know a patient who lost her power/phone and thus, her bi-pap and any ability to get help... she was in respiratory distress overnight, got out inm the morning to a neighbor... went the doc that morning and was shipped from there to the ER... she died that afternoon... she'd have taken a green box...

woodside/ SoMaR/ forest hills tools screwed us all... these are the people wipe their donkey with the money it takes to rebuild a weatherhead, buy a generator, and spend a week in a hotel... they have electrician's on retainer... the irony of it is, i know two people in SoMaR, who both have permanent diesel generators in their backyards (talk about ugly as ****) who fought "the box"... how sweet of them...

the boxes should go in and ALL of the utilities should be buried...

"Stop the Snobs!"

The hospice my wife works for had a lot of dc's the last two weeks, some going out of state w/ relatives and many dc's of the "permanent" kind.

[patric]

quote:Originally posted by brunoflipper

the boxes should go in and ALL of the utilities should be buried...

Rather than start with affluent neighborhoods (who AEP knows object to the undergrounding they dont want to do in the first place), the priority for hardening the utility might be shifted to the burying of feeder lines -- those where a single pole hit by a car cuts off 1,500 customers in one fell swoop.

Seems to make sense that if you want a reliable electrical system you start at the source and then move outward.

[sauerkraut]

Those "green boxes" have alot of drawbacks too. They can cause cancer, the boxes block the views, they lower the prop. value and the odds of having another power failure like what Tulsa just went thru is a very long shot... It's a rare event. I would not want a box near my home for a event that happens every 50 years or so. It would be far wiser to rid your yard of all trees so winds and other ice storms can't bring them down. Be pro-active, don't keep big trees near your home... But, as always that's just me.

[patric]

quote:Originally posted by sauerkraut

Those "green boxes" have alot of drawbacks too. They can cause cancer, the boxes block the views, they lower the prop. value

Whereas mature trees increase property values and their shade helps lower cooling costs in summer -- and a homeowner shouldnt have to justify having trees in the first place.
As for the aesthetics, there is always...

...a shrubbery!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UbtcmjfKa8

If you want to compare the cancer risks of a surface transformer with one suspended 25 feet in the air, be my guest.

You can cut every tree from the Tulsa landscape but still loose power by the thousands with feeder lines on poles planted literally inches from the curb -- drive down south Lewis next time youre in Tulsa.