Why I'm withdrawing from the City Council race...

[Breadburner]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/08/us/08missouri.html?hp

[FOTD]

We did not need the proof you were a sick puppy, BB.

[sgrizzle]

You were running?

[Townsend]

Paul Tay...just sayin'

[waterboy]

Why would you let that stop you? This guy could have tracked them down at their homes or in traffic over disagreements in their personal lives and done the same thing. Cannon Fodder and Conan and many others on this forum would have you believe that packing an AK or .40 caliber would protect you in such circumstances. So you could pack heat during council meetings or amend laws so that you could. Or just realize that there is no guarantee of safety in life and do the best job you can while preparing for the worst. Hmmm. Our forefathers risked hanging to meet and sign the declaration. Wonder if they were packing...

What district?

[cannon_fodder]

Waterboy, if someone wants to shoot you there is little you can do to stop them.  As you suggested, a motivated killer in a free society will probably succeed be it at home, in your office, or at a public meeting.  However, if citizens other than the murdered cops had conceal and carry permits in the room it is possible that the violence could have been quelled by killing the murderer before he was able to shoot 7 people (he had to reload since he fired 15+ times).  

The instances of carry permit holders committing violence are far fewer than instances in which they act legally.  The people in the room had to cower under their chairs "waiting to get shot."  Being armed in that instance would be better than now.  That's all I'm saying, not that being armed will necessarily protect you.

[Breadburner]

Hey...Who says I'm not packing....Legally of course....[]

[Chicken Little]

quote:Originally posted by Breadburner

Hey...Who says I'm not packing....Legally of course....[]

Of course.

[Breadburner]

quote:Originally posted by Chicken Little

quote:Originally posted by Breadburner

Hey...Who says I'm not packing....Legally of course....[]

Of course.

[waterboy]

I'm no anti gun guy CF. But if everyone in that room was known to be armed or presumed to have been armed, he wouldn't have crashed in with just one weapon. That determined crazy would have brought more lethal weapons, automatic shotgun, flash grenades, C-2 or whatever and the result would be even greater carnage. So in effect the presumption of concealed weapons could have escalated the violence not reduced it.

My point is that the world is a dangerous place and you should presume there is no safety. If a gun makes you feel safe it is in most cases an illusion. Car bombs kill just as well as a criminal's unregistered weapon. Your wits, some foresight and prayer are probably more important in the long run.

Really, I don't want to incur the wrath of the NRA enthusiasts here for an unending argument.

[pmcalk]

Iraqi's version of the NRA is fighting for the rights of citizens over there as well:

http://www.theonion.com/content/video/in_the_know_new_iraqi_law

[tim huntzinger]

Not blaming the victims but how hard is it for a suburb (27K population)to figger out that the guy is unbalanced and work with his family and the mental health system to help him resolve his issues peacefully?  This guy was not unknown to City Hall or the police - 150 tickets?? That strategy worked out great.

Participants in the meeting started throwing chairs at the shooter - chairs.  When just one bullet would have done the job.  At least they fought back.

[patric]

quote:Originally posted by tim huntzingerThis guy was not unknown to City Hall or the police - 150 tickets?? That strategy worked out great.

Without addressing anyone's overall mental state, a pattern of harassment is likely to make anyone snap.  No one is wearing the white hat here.

[cannon_fodder]

Waterboy, I openly conceded the fact that in an open and free society one determined killer (with or without firearms) will likely be able to kill you.  Safety is more often than not an illusion or rather a perceived expectation rather than a reality.  Armed, trained and alert police officer's get killed weekly - certainly it could happen to anyone else.

I simply disagree that additional control of firearms will do anything to control that fact.

[tim huntzinger]

True, Patric, no white hats, but there is an a$$hat and as usual I am more than willing to put it on . . .

For all I know they all may have worked out a deal and was in close contact with the dude's mental health team, and the guy was just that sick.  They may have bent over backward trying to appease the guy.  Sometimes everything 'right' can be done and there is still a bad outcome.