Death Penalty for 9/11 Conspirators

[we vs us]

Goldmine.

quote: PERSONAL REPRESENTATIVE:  Mr. President, the Detainee has asked me to read his final statement to the Tribunal with the understanding he may interject or add statements if he needs to, to correct what I say. According to the Detainee:

"I hereby admit and affirm without duress to the following:

  1. I swore Bay'aat (i.e., allegiance) to Sheikh Usama Bin Laden to conduct Jihad of self and money, and also Hijrah (i.e., expatriation to any location in the world where Jihad is required).
  2. I was a member of the Al Qaida Council.
  3. I was the Media Operations Director for Al-Sahab, or 'The Clouds, under Dr. Ayman AL Zawahiri. Al-Sahab is the media outlet that provided Al-Qaida-sponsored information to Al Jazeera. Four. "

DETAINEE: [speaking inaudibly to Personal Representative]

PRESIDENT: Please tell.

PERSONAL
REPRESENTATIVE: In other channels or other media outlets.

PRESIDENT: Thank you.

PERSONAL
REPRESENTATIVE: [continuing]

  4. "I was the Operational Director for Sheikh Usama Bin Laden for the organizing, planning, follow-up, and execution of the 9/11 Operation under the Military Commander, Sheikh Abu Hafs Al-Masri Subhi Abu Sittah.
  5. I was the Military Operational Commander for all foreign operations around the world under the direction of Sheikh Usama Bin Laden and Dr. Ayman Al-Zawahiri.
  6. I was directly in charge, after the death of Sheikh Abu Hafs Al-Masri Subhi Abu Sittah, of managing and following up on the Cell for the Production of Biological Weapons, such as anthrax and others, and following up on Dirty Bomb Operations on American soil.
  7. I was Emir (i.e., commander) of Beit Al Shuhada (i.e., the Martyrs' House) in the state of Kandahar, Afghanistan, which housed the 9/11 hijackers. There I was responsible for their training and readiness for the execution of the 9/11 Operation. Also, I hereby admit and affirm without duress that I was a responsible participant, principal planner, trainer, financier (via the Military Council Treasury), executor, and/or a personal participant in the following;
        1. I was responsible for the 1993 World Trade Center Operation.
        2. I was responsible for the 9/11 Operation, from A to Z.
        3. –––––––––
        4. I was responsible for the Shoe Bomber Operation to down two American airplanes.
        5. I was responsible for the Filka Island Operation in Kuwait that killed two American soldiers.
        6. I was responsible for the bombing of a nightclub in Bali, Indonesia, which was frequented by British and Australian nationals.
        7. I was responsible for planning, training, surveying, and financing the New (or Second) Wave attacks against the following skyscrapers after 9/11:
              1. Library Tower, California.
              2. Sears Tower, Chicago,
              3. Plaza Bank, Washington state.
              4. The Empire State Building, New York City.
        8. I was responsible for planning, financing, & follow-up of Operations to destroy American military vessels and oil tankers in the Straights of Hormuz, the Straights of Gibraltar, and the Port of Singapore.
        9. I was responsible for planning, training, surveying, and financing for the Operation to bomb and destroy the Panama Canal.
       10. I was responsible for surveying and financing for the assassination of several former American Presidents, including President Carter.
       11. I was responsible for surveying, planning, and financing for the bombing of suspension bridges in New York.
       12. I was responsible for planning to destroy the Sears Tower by burning a few fuel or oil tanker trucks beneath it or around it.
       13. I was responsible for planning, surveying, and financing for the operation to destroy Heathrow Airport, the Canary Wharf Building, and Big Ben on British soil.
       14. I was responsible for planning, surveying, and financing for the destruction of many night clubs frequented by American and British citizens on Thailand soil.
       15. I was responsible for surveying and financing for the destruction of the New York Stock Exchange and other financial targets after 9/11.
       16. I was responsible for planning, financing, and surveying for the destruction of buildings in the Israeli city of Elat by using airplanes leaving from Saudi Arabia.
       17. I was responsible for planning, surveying, and financing for the destruction of American embassies in Indonesia, Australia, and Japan.
       18. I was responsible for surveying and financing for the destruction of the Israeli embassy in India, Azerbaijan, the Philippines, and Australia.
       19. I was responsible for surveying and financing for the destruction of an Israeli 'El-AP Airlines flight on Thailand soil departing from Bangkok Airport.
       20. I was responsible for sending several Mujahadeen into Israel to conduct surveillance to hit several strategic targets deep in Israel.
       21. I was responsible for the bombing of the hotel in Mombasa that is frequented by Jewish travelers via El-Al airlines.
       22. I was responsible for launching a Russian-made SA-7 surface-to-air missile on El-Al or other Jewish airliner departing from Mombasa.
       23. I was responsible for planning and surveying to hit American targets in South Korea. such as American military bases and a few night clubs frequented by American soldiers.
       24. I was responsible for financial, excuse me, I was responsible for providing financial support to hit American, Jewish, and British targets in Turkey.
       25. I was responsible for surveillance needed to hit nuclear power plants that generate electricity in several U.S. states.
       26. I was responsible for planning, surveying, and financing to hit NATO Headquarters in Europe.
       27. I was responsible for the planning and surveying needed to execute the Bojinka Operation, which was designed to down twelve American airplanes full of passengers. I personally monitored a round-trip, Manila-to-Seoul, Pan Am flight.
       28. I was responsible for the assassination attempt against President Clinton during his Visit to the Philippines in 1994 or 1995.
       29. I was responsible for the assassination attempt against Pope John Paul the second while he was visiting the Philippines."

DETAINEE: I was not responsible, but share.

PERSONAL
REPRESENTATIVE: I shared responsibility. I will restate number twenty nine.

 29.

     "I shared responsibility for the assassination attempt against Pope John Paul the second while he was visiting the Philippines.
 30.

     I was responsible for the training and financing for the assassination of Pakistan's President Musharaf.
 31. I was responsible for the attempt to destroy an American oil company owned by the Jewish former Secretary of State, Henry Kissinger, on the Island of Sumatra, Indonesia."

PERSONAL
REPRESENTATIVE: Sir, that concludes the written portion of the Detainee's final statement and as he has alluded to earlier he has some additional comments he would like to make.

I'm still digesting this, so I don't have a lot of conclusions, but I was surprised that KSM had had a status review.  In fact, I was surprised that anyone had had a status review. That's points in their favor.  

It seems to be orderly, and from what I've read, the trial will be through military courts.  For all that, the problems are still present:  there is classified evidence that he can't defend himself against, he doesn't have access to certain witnesses (someone in the law profession should clarify, if possible, how a trial judge would disallow witnesses), and there's still the issue of torture hanging over this.  I look at that confession up there and am immediately suspicious.  Some of it is perfectly plausible, and some of it doesn't seem as much.  He obviously knows a lot about some things, and almost nothing about others, yet he's taking responsibility for it all.  Dunno.  It rubs me the wrong way.

Anyone have thoughts?  Guido and Breadburner, no fair telling us the answers, since you guys already know whether he's guilty or not.

[Breadburner]

We better O.R. him I think that would be the right thing to do....

[Breadburner]

quote:Originally posted by FOTD

It's "you're", BB.

This thread is a crock of jingoism.

Look a Grammer Nazi....Showing your true colors....STD..?

[EricP]

quote:Originally posted by Breadburner

quote:Originally posted by FOTD

It's "you're", BB.

This thread is a crock of jingoism.

Look a Grammer Nazi....Showing your true colors....STD..?

Grammar*


.....


Had to

[mr.jaynes]

quote:Originally posted by Breadburner

quote:Originally posted by mr.jaynes

quote:Originally posted by Breadburner

Can I flip the switch....

Televise it, and I'm all for it.

I knew I liked you.....

After the events of 9/11 and the carnage and lives lost, I think a public and televised execution would be appropriate.

[guido911]

quote:Originally posted by altruismsuffers

quote:Originally posted by guido911

Originally posted by
Oh that's right, by all means when you are trying to obtain information about possible terror attacks that could result in thousands of people dying, interrogators should be thinking about Miranda and other procedural rights. It would be pretty stupid if a terror attack could have been prevented because interrogators were more concerned about constitutional rights of terrorists than protecting innocents.

You have to understand that even the "bad guys" are humans.  Stepping on the rights of even ONE HUMAN is stepping on the rights of ALL HUMANS.  These rights don't derive from what George Bush refers to as a "God D*** Piece of Paper!"  These rights are inalienable endowed by OUR creator.  Weather you believe in GOD or ALLAH we were all created by THE SAME CREATOR and we ARE ALL GODS CREATION.  So to say that this ALLEGED "terrorist" does not deserve the same rights that you and I do is unjust and just plain out of touch with reality.  

Well ALT, I guess this Hezbollah terrorist bastard's death will really make you cry. This poor guy, who was only implicated in the cowardly murder of over 200 Marines in Beirut in 1983, was ruthlessly and merciless killed by a car bomb in Syria. The whole world has suffered because he was denied justice in a court of law.

http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSL1350754620080213

[Breadburner]

quote:Originally posted by EricP

quote:Originally posted by Breadburner

quote:Originally posted by FOTD

It's "you're", BB.

This thread is a crock of jingoism.

Look a Grammer Nazi....Showing your true colors....STD..?

Grammar*


.....


Had to

I had to give him something...heh..

[mr.jaynes]

quote:Originally posted by guido911

quote:Originally posted by altruismsuffers

quote:Originally posted by guido911

Originally posted by
Oh that's right, by all means when you are trying to obtain information about possible terror attacks that could result in thousands of people dying, interrogators should be thinking about Miranda and other procedural rights. It would be pretty stupid if a terror attack could have been prevented because interrogators were more concerned about constitutional rights of terrorists than protecting innocents.

You have to understand that even the "bad guys" are humans.  Stepping on the rights of even ONE HUMAN is stepping on the rights of ALL HUMANS.  These rights don't derive from what George Bush refers to as a "God D*** Piece of Paper!"  These rights are inalienable endowed by OUR creator.  Weather you believe in GOD or ALLAH we were all created by THE SAME CREATOR and we ARE ALL GODS CREATION.  So to say that this ALLEGED "terrorist" does not deserve the same rights that you and I do is unjust and just plain out of touch with reality.  

Well ALT, I guess this Hezbollah terrorist bastard's death will really make you cry. This poor guy, who was only implicated in the cowardly murder of over 200 Marines in Beirut in 1983, was ruthlessly and merciless killed by a car bomb in Syria. The whole world has suffered because he was denied justice in a court of law.

http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSL1350754620080213

See, and if you'll just repeat the same procedure on a regular basis with the rest of that cowardly bunch (either in combat or being brought to court to answer for what they've done), televise it worldwide, people may think twice before getting involved with terrorist groups. Ya can't reason with them, so wipe 'em out.

[FOTD]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/14/opinion/14kristof.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin


Op-Ed Columnist
When We Torture


By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF
Published: February 14, 2008
The most famous journalist you may never have heard of is Sami al-Hajj, an Al Jazeera cameraman who is on a hunger strike to protest abuse during more than six years in a Kafkaesque prison system.

Mr. Hajj's fortitude has turned him into a household name in the Arab world, and his story is sowing anger at the authorities holding him without trial.

That's us. Mr. Hajj is one of our forgotten prisoners in Guantánamo Bay.

If the Bush administration appointed an Under Secretary of State for Antagonizing the Islamic World, with advice from a Blue Ribbon Commission for Sullying America's Image, it couldn't have done a more systematic job of discrediting our reputation around the globe. Instead of using American political capital to push for peace in the Middle East or Darfur, it is using it to force-feed Mr. Hajj.

President Bush is now moving forward with plans to try six Guantánamo prisoners before a military tribunal, rather than hold a regular trial. That will call new attention to abuses in Guantánamo and sow more anti-Americanism around the world.

Defense Secretary Robert Gates and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice pushed last year to close Guantánamo because of its wretched impact on American foreign policy. But they lost the argument to Alberto Gonzales and Dick Cheney. So America spends millions of dollars bolstering public diplomacy and sponsoring chipper radio and television broadcasts to the Islamic world — and then undoes it all with Guantánamo.

Suppose the Iranian government arrested and beat Katie Couric, held her virtually incommunicado for six years and promised to release her only if she would spy for Iran. In such circumstances, Iranian investments in public diplomacy toward the United States wouldn't get very far, either.

After Mr. Hajj was arrested in Afghanistan in December 2001, he was beaten, starved, frozen and subjected to anal searches in public to humiliate him, his lawyers say. The U.S. government initially seems to have confused him with another cameraman, and then offered vague accusations that he had been a financial courier and otherwise assisted extremist groups.

"There is a significant amount of information, both unclassified and classified, which supports continued detention of Sami al-Hajj by U.S. forces," said Cmdr. Jeffrey Gordon, a Pentagon spokesman, adding that the detainees are humanely treated and "receive exceptional medical care."

Military officials did acknowledge that Mr. Hajj was not considered a potential suicide bomber and probably would have been released long ago if he had just "come clean" by responding in greater detail to the allegations and showing remorse.

Mr. Hajj's lawyers contend that he has already responded in great detail to every allegation. One indication that the government doesn't take its own charges seriously, the lawyers say, is that the U.S. offered Mr. Hajj a deal: immediate freedom if he would spy on Al Jazeera. Mr. Hajj refused.

Most Americans, including myself, originally gave President Bush the benefit of the doubt and assumed that the inmates truly were "the worst of the worst." But evidence has grown that many are simply the unluckiest of the unluckiest.

Some were aid workers who were kidnapped by armed Afghan groups and sold to the C.I.A. as extremists. One longtime Sudanese aid worker employed by an international charity, Adel Hamad, was just released by the U.S. in December after five years in captivity. A U.S. Army major reviewing his case called it "unconscionable."

Mr. Hajj began his hunger strike more than a year ago, so twice daily he is strapped down and a tube is wound up his nose and down his throat to his stomach. Sometimes a lubricant is used, and sometimes it isn't, so his throat and nose have been rubbed raw. Sometimes a tube still bloody from another hunger striker is used, his lawyers say.

"It's really a regime to make it as painful and difficult as possible," said one of his lawyers, Zachary Katznelson.

Mr. Hajj cannot bend his knees because of abuse he received soon after his arrest, yet the toilet chair he was prescribed was removed — making it excruciating for him to use the remaining squat toilet. He is allowed a Koran, but his glasses were confiscated so he cannot read it.

All this is inhumane, but also boneheaded. Guantánamo itself does far more damage to American interests than Mr. Hajj could ever do.

To stand against torture and arbitrary detention is not to be squeamish. It is to be civilized.