Domestic Spy Satellites

[patric]

"We have met the enemy and he is us."  -- Pogo


Plan to use spy satellites for homeland security missions moves forward

Associated Press - February 12, 2008 9:23 PM ET

WASHINGTON (AP) - A Homeland Security official says a plan to use U.S. spy satellites for domestic security and law-enforcement missions is moving forward. The plan had been delayed for months because of privacy and civil liberties concerns.

The official says the charter for an office within the department that would use overhead and mapping imagery from existing satellites is in the final stage of completion.

The future of this program is likely to come up tomorrow when Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff goes to Capitol Hill to talk about his department's spending plan.

The official says the new plan explicitly states that existing laws which prevent the government from spying on citizens would remain in effect. It could not be used to intercept verbal and written conversations.

[cannon_fodder]

Big Brother is taking one more step forward.

Without a warrant they can currently look at my phone records, listen to my international calls, search my car, follow me around town, check most of my financial transactions, and now watch what I'm doing form space.  That's just what they explicitly say they can do without a warrant.

Mohamed president bomb assassinate nuclear Washington caliphate heroine

Now that Big Brother is reading this...  GO AWAY!

[bokworker]

The line between personal freedoms and security is definitely moving.... just as a question. What level of "security" should we expect from our government? Should we hold them responsible for any bad thing that can happen? If you or your family were the victim of a terrorist act would you expect some sort of renumeration from the government?

[grahambino]

In other news, the Dept. of Homeland Security bought advertising time during the 2/19 episode of American Idol. During this time, an image of OBL will be on the screen for exactly 2 minutes.  All Americans are encouraged to view this image and reflect on their emotions.  If this proves successful, additional ad-time has also been secured for the 2/20 episode as well.

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by bokworker

What level of "security" should we expect from our government? Should we hold them responsible for any bad thing that can happen? If you or your family were the victim of a terrorist act would you expect some sort of renumeration from the government?

No. You can only sue the person who weighs the value of security vs privacy. Everyone reading this is willing to give up some level of security in exchange for privacy. By doing this, We say that we want vulnerabilities reduced, not eliminated. Therefore we cannot look for compensation because "one bad thing happens."

[cannon_fodder]

quote:Originally posted by grahambino

In other news, the Dept. of Homeland Security bought advertising time during the 2/19 episode of American Idol. During this time, an image of OBL will be on the screen for exactly 2 minutes.  All Americans are encouraged to view this image and reflect on their emotions.  If this proves successful, additional ad-time has also been secured for the 2/20 episode as well.

If you don't shoot your TV screen, the terrorists have won.
- - -

There is an obvious balance between privacy and security.  The two are to some degree mutually exclusive.  However, recent steps, to me, seem to do more to erode privacy than to increase security.  

Using airport security as an example of a farce - we had exactly no US based hijackings in the air for the 6 years prior to 2001.  We have had no hijackings in the 6 years following 2001.  The difference is I now have to wait 2 hours, take off my shoes, miss every 4th flight, check baggage that won't show up, surrender razors, pocket knives, fingernail clippers, shampoo and my son's seal shell (it had spines), and explain why I don't want to have my memory cards X-rayed while waiting for them swap my wife's makeup and kowtowing to some jerk with a HS diploma and a tin badge on a power trip.

That's the basic paradigm of government security.  I can't get shampoo past, but every 3rd attempt at getting a gun or explosives past security is successful.  And you'll notice the little packages from Columbia seem to get in just fine still.

Someone attempt to hijack a plane with a bra and panties... future security measures would at least be entertaining.

[sgrizzle]

I haven't had a problem with airport security. Of course I do something no-one else in the airport seems to do. I CHECK MY LUGGAGE.

For the love of god, two suitcases and a laptop bag do not count as "2 carryons and a personal item"

I have never surrendered anything, never set off the detector, my bags have always passed x-ray and have never had any real delays in the airport. This from the person who is always carrying 5-7 battery-powered devices. My luggage is usually at the carousel when I get there and I just saved about a 1/4mile of carrying them, per airport.

/rant off

[mr.jaynes]

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

I haven't had a problem with airport security. Of course I do something no-one else in the airport seems to do. I CHECK MY LUGGAGE.
/rant off

However, it also depends what kind of people you have working at the airport security checkpoints. Some are reasonable people, and some are on a power trip. Some are honest, and some are downright crooks. All luck of the draw I suppose. As long as Congress and the Judiciary will apply some much-needed checks and balances on this behavior, the power-that-be won't evolve into a law unto themselves.

[cannon_fodder]

Die Sq, die!

I have had horrible luck with checked baggage, but I still check all my luggage BUT FOR a standard sized backpack.  In said backpack I put my over night kit (in case my luggage fails to show I still need glasses/contacts, medicine, and will have dice, play cards, and deodorant), a sweatshirt (or place to put a sweatshirt if on as travel is often between climates), a book, my digital camera, and if my boy is with me some stuff for him to play with.

A backpack is well within regulations.

I always get flagged for some reason.  All my crap is in a 3oz container in a damn zip lock baggy, no knives or unchecked firearms, ID at the ready, and a friendly smile on my face.  Then the bastards hold me up.  Oh I how loathe air travel these days.  

ANYWAY, the point is we are no more secure now than we were then.  Nor will we really be more secure with big brother watching my wife sun bathing nude on the roof at 5624 S. Marion this Saturday from 3 to 5pm.

[we vs us]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

Die Sq, die!

I have had horrible luck with checked baggage, but I still check all my luggage BUT FOR a standard sized backpack.  In said backpack I put my over night kit (in case my luggage fails to show I still need glasses/contacts, medicine, and will have dice, play cards, and deodorant), a sweatshirt (or place to put a sweatshirt if on as travel is often between climates), a book, my digital camera, and if my boy is with me some stuff for him to play with.

A backpack is well within regulations.

I always get flagged for some reason.  All my crap is in a 3oz container in a damn zip lock baggy, no knives or unchecked firearms, ID at the ready, and a friendly smile on my face.  Then the bastards hold me up.  Oh I how loathe air travel these days.  

It may also have to do with how you go about booking your tickets.  A friend of mine and I had to help a family member move on a rather impromptu basis a couple of years ago, and he and I got flagged for 1) buying one way tickets (we were driving the Uhaul back), 2) being two men alone, 3) buying belatedly (we bought a day or two before the flight), 4) and using a credit card (!!).  Security at KCI very helpfully ran down this list of variables with us while they swabbed the insides of our shoes for anthrax and  plutonium residue, tossed our undies around looking for plastique, and squeezed our shampoo bottles gingerly, in case of nitroglycerin.  Turns out you get more than a couple of seemingly random flags attached to you, and the Computer Brain somewhere in the back will automagically decide you need a strict full-body cavity search.

I was comforted knowing, however, that I would be prevented from triggering my belt-buckle-bomb if the KCI TSAs had anything to do about it.  A very strong crew indeed, and kind, too, if a little rough.

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder



ANYWAY, the point is we are no more secure now than we were then.  Nor will we really be more secure with big brother watching my wife sun bathing nude on the roof at 5624 S. Marion this Saturday from 3 to 5pm.

Trying to sell some skybox seats?

[mr.jaynes]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

Die Sq, die!

I have had horrible luck with checked baggage, but I still check all my luggage BUT FOR a standard sized backpack.  In said backpack I put my over night kit (in case my luggage fails to show I still need glasses/contacts, medicine, and will have dice, play cards, and deodorant), a sweatshirt (or place to put a sweatshirt if on as travel is often between climates), a book, my digital camera, and if my boy is with me some stuff for him to play with.

A backpack is well within regulations.

I always get flagged for some reason.  All my crap is in a 3oz container in a damn zip lock baggy, no knives or unchecked firearms, ID at the ready, and a friendly smile on my face.  Then the bastards hold me up.  Oh I how loathe air travel these days.  

ANYWAY, the point is we are no more secure now than we were then.  Nor will we really be more secure with big brother watching my wife sun bathing nude on the roof at 5624 S. Marion this Saturday from 3 to 5pm.

The only times I've had problems with lost luggage is whenever I've flown on an express jet, and then only if the destination is a regional airport; even then, it doesn't happen that regularly, but it does happen. But hey, tradeoffs: I fly free, having once my father and in his footsteps my older brother flying for Continental; lost luggage is a small and trifling price for me to pay, and within hours, it turns up anyway. Still, I have to go through the checkpoints and procedures when I go through the airport, and depending on the airport, it can either be hassle-free or frustrating as all get-out. The airport in Tulsa is fine, but that's before I get to the check-in and the security checkpoints. Then, it becomes decidedly adversarial. Who hires these people anyway?

[FOTD]

The Busheviks are monsters.....

Dan Froomkin notes at the Washington Post http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/blog/2008/02/12/BL2008021201228_4.html?hpid=opinionsbox1 , "Isn't that the very definition of a police state: that companies should do whatever the government asks, even if they know it's illegal?" Indeed it is.....

Treating the Constitution as a Doormat
http://harpers.org/archive/2008/02/hbc-90002382

We should take careful stock of the Democrats who voted against the Dodd Amendment, and, in my mind, cast a vote to dismantle the Constitution: Bayh, Inouye, Johnson, Landrieu, McCaskill, Ben Nelson, Bill Nelson, Stabenow, Feinstein, Kohl, Pryor, Rockefeller, Salazar, Carper, Mikulski, Conrad, Webb, and Lincoln. Hillary Clinton, who promised her opposition, couldn't be bothered to cast a vote. She was the sole absent senator. In the minds of many of the party faithful, she forfeited her right to party leadership by her unexplained absence on a vote of exceptional importance.

And Republicans will get routed in Nov all across the board. After what we witnessed for the last 8 yrs it is understandable.