Day of Silence in Tulsa?

[mrhaskellok]

Sorry for the topic...I am not a member of any church so I don't know what is wrong with Oklahoma Christians...perhaps I do not understand "modern Christianity" like others.

Why must the fact that I enjoy communicating my thoughts on, not just this subject but many others imply that I have sexual issues?  Lol.

Just replying to other people's replies to my thread.

Have a good day.

[Hometown]

quote:Originally posted by mrhaskellok



Sorry for the topic...I am not a member of any church so I don't know what is wrong with Oklahoma Christians...perhaps I do not understand "modern Christianity" like others.

Why must the fact that I enjoy communicating my thoughts on, not just this subject but many others imply that I have sexual issues?  Lol.

Just replying to other people's replies to my thread.

Have a good day.

You have formed an opinion that you stated here yesterday several times that there is a link between Christianity and Anti-Homosexual behavior.

This is the second day in a row when you have been drawn to comment on homosexuality.  People are drawn to the conflicts in their lives.

Do you know where the term friendly fellow comes from?  The kindling that was used to light fires under homosexuals when they were burned at the stake was called a friendly fellow.

The last thing homosexuals deserve is another friendly fellow tossed on the fire.  Pick on someone your own size.

[mrhaskellok]

Amazing.  I would love to chat with you perhaps via phone if only to clarify this situation.  I do not mean to draw a relationship between Christianity and Anti-Homosexual behavior except to say that the Christians I know wont tolerate Homosexuality.  I was simply giving the forum a REASON or MOTIVE to the crime (Kern's words)  Now, thanks to people like you, who are so hyper-sensitive to everything said with the word "homo" tied to it, I am now labeled as a idiot with sexual problems.  I don't get it.  You think that CHRISTIANS in Oklahoma are backwards in their thinking?  I wouldn't know but I do know you sure are.  

Simple point, one last time...Traditional Christians (as I understand them)and Homosexuals are going to have a hard time getting along with each other because of their perceived moral differences...ERGO KERN'S STATEMENTS.  I said in my post that they were over the top.  Did I not?  Does that mean I can now have my normal sexual life back?  

This is why I hate religion.  People are way too sensitive.  I am leaving this thread now and going back to the threads dealing with municipal issues.  I understand those people better.


PS My "Anti-Day Of Silence" theory is rooted only in my outlook of its success.  I don't think it is a good idea because I believe it is going to draw attention to a group of people who are viewed, not by me, as "attacking" the moral fiber of this nation.  

[T-Town Now]

quote:Originally posted by mrhaskellok


Amazing.  I would love to chat with you perhaps via phone if only to clarify this situation.  I do not mean to draw a relationship between Christianity and Anti-Homosexual behavior except to say that the Christians I know wont tolerate Homosexuality.  I was simply giving the forum a REASON or MOTIVE to the crime (Kern's words)  Now, thanks to people like you, who are so hyper-sensitive to everything said with the word "homo" tied to it, I am now labeled as a idiot with sexual problems.  I don't get it.  You think that CHRISTIANS in Oklahoma are backwards in their thinking?  I wouldn't know but I do know you sure are.  

Simple point, one last time...Traditional Christians (as I understand them)and Homosexuals are going to have a hard time getting along with each other because of their perceived moral differences...ERGO KERN'S STATEMENTS.  I said in my post that they were over the top.  Did I not?  Does that mean I can now have my normal sexual life back?  

This is why I hate religion.  People are way too sensitive.  I am leaving this thread now and going back to the threads dealing with municipal issues.  I understand those people better.


PS My "Anti-Day Of Silence" theory is rooted only in my outlook of its success.  I don't think it is a good idea because I believe it is going to draw attention to a group of people who are viewed, not by me, as "attacking" the moral fiber of this nation.

Which "Christians" are you talking about? The ones who judge others and condemn them? I think when a person selects a specific group and says they're worse than terrorists, they have passed judgement on them and are condemning them.

I'm not sure which Christianity allows this, but the way I've been brought up I was taught to love others, not judge them, not wish harm on them, not condemn them, and that it's not my place to do any of those things.

Today, it seems we have lots of "Christians" running around who think it's perfectly OK to start wars based on lies, in which tens of thousands of innocent people are killed, and pass legislation to prevent gay people from having the same rights that everyone else is entitled to.

And I'm certain the passage in the Bible about a man and a woman didn't mean until you get sick of each other, then get divorced and remarry. Then do it again, if you see fit to do so.

A lot of "Christians" today are hypocrites. And the very things they are doing are just as bad as the things they condemn others for doing. A sin is a sin, so I guess Sally Kern feels she's worse than terrorists as well.

Right.

Homosexuality is not a choice. You either are or you aren't. Like having red hair, or blue eyes. It's just the way it is, and whoever or whatever created this world and everything in it is responsible.

Christians need to remember about do unto others and let he who is without sin cast the first stone. I trust the person who spoke those words would not believe that gays are worse than terrorists.

[waterboy]

That was pretty well said. I am Christian and don't know any other Christians who would admit to such ignorant rantings as Kern espoused. Why people lump Christians together or Democrats/Republicans as though they are monolithic in viewpoints has always mystified me.

However, apparently Oklahomans are a different type of Christian than I am. Nearly 69% responded to a KJRH poll saying they strongly agreed with Kern's remarks. If you were to cross reference that with the % who have read the preamble to the constitution and identify it as Communist propaganda you might find the same percentage.

[Townsend]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

That was pretty well said. I am Christian and don't know any other Christians who would admit to such ignorant rantings as Kern espoused. Why people lump Christians together or Democrats/Republicans as though they are monolithic in viewpoints has always mystified me.

However, apparently Oklahomans are a different type of Christian than I am. Nearly 69% responded to a KJRH poll saying they strongly agreed with Kern's remarks. If you were to cross reference that with the % who have read the preamble to the constitution and identify it as Communist propaganda you might find the same percentage.

I'm no expert but I'm going to throw a guess out there that the people responding to that poll are on the defensive, ie the Kerniacs.  The rest of us are starting to not give a damn and wish she and her freaky "I caught my daddy doing something with his poker buddy" issues would pass.

[mr.jaynes]

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

quote:Originally posted by tim huntzinger

And go ahead and tell kids 'do not do this thing' and a certain percentage of kids who are hard-wired bullies, have-no-choice-cuzzen-them-genes meanies, have-a-point-to-prove DNA, Jr. a-holes will most certainly take up the challenge and make it a point to rip on the 'special' kids.

Anti-drug pogroms do not work, abstinence pogroms do not work, why would this effort have any better chance of success?  More brainwashing nonsense.

Pogroms?

Teachers used to be allowed to beat the ___ out of those kids.

Or, they'd turn a blind eye (sometimes even fostering a hostile enough environment) while gay students were victimized.

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by mr.jaynes


Or, they'd turn a blind eye (sometimes even fostering a hostile enough environment) while gay students were victimized.

I'm just saying that the kind of kids who are this violent probably need something a bit harsher than study hall or timeouts.

[mr.jaynes]

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

quote:Originally posted by mr.jaynes


Or, they'd turn a blind eye (sometimes even fostering a hostile enough environment) while gay students were victimized.

I'm just saying that the kind of kids who are this violent probably need something a bit harsher than study hall or timeouts.

Well, if they still have that Scared Straight program, i'm all for it!

[pmcalk]

quote:Originally posted by mrhaskellok
My point was, and remains that in contrast, the tables have been turned in their favor lately in our schools by allowing these kinds of tolerance activities and not others.  Remember, millions of Jews have died, but I don't recall ever being asked to be quite to remember those who are and have been persecuted for Jewish faith.  And please do not tell me that bullying is a gay problem only.  Jews, Christians, Muslims, Gays, Lesbians, Blacks, Asians, Goths, and even whites are attacked all across our nation by bullies.  IN this case, one of these aforementioned groups decided to use these attacks to promote tolerance of their view points, again a very logical thing to do.  
I simply disagree with schools singling out any one group of people for what I call "tolerance training" (something we need more of).  It just needs to be done in a far more general fashion if you want to be more successful with it.

I think you are incorrect here.  First, with respect to Jews, there is definitely a day of remembrance--in Nov., people all of the world pause for a moment in recognition of Kristallnacht.  For whatever reason, its not well known in Oklahoma, but New York makes a big deal of it.  In February, we recognize Martin Luther King and in June, Juneteenth day.  We have an entire museum dedicated to the plight of African Americans in school in Little Rock.

The difference is that, while many people continue to be bullied for a variety of reasons, we (except for a few crazy people) as a society believe that harming people simply based upon their race or religion is detestable.  We even have hate crimes that punish people more severely for harming people based upon race & religion.

On the other hand, a significant number of people see bullying of homosexuals as ok.  Hate crimes do not include sexual preference.  Teachers have been known to turn an blind eye to such behavior.  If they ignored attacks based upon race or religion, you can bet they would be sued.  No one can sue for sexual orientation discrimination in Oklahoma.

[mr.jaynes]

quote:Originally posted by pmcalk

quote:Originally posted by mrhaskellok
My point was, and remains that in contrast, the tables have been turned in their favor lately in our schools by allowing these kinds of tolerance activities and not others.  Remember, millions of Jews have died, but I don't recall ever being asked to be quite to remember those who are and have been persecuted for Jewish faith.  And please do not tell me that bullying is a gay problem only.  Jews, Christians, Muslims, Gays, Lesbians, Blacks, Asians, Goths, and even whites are attacked all across our nation by bullies.  IN this case, one of these aforementioned groups decided to use these attacks to promote tolerance of their view points, again a very logical thing to do.  
I simply disagree with schools singling out any one group of people for what I call "tolerance training" (something we need more of).  It just needs to be done in a far more general fashion if you want to be more successful with it.

Teachers have been known to turn an blind eye to such behavior.

Turn a blind eye?!!!!? It seems more of a matter of sick, twisted, sadistic entertainment for some of them! I'm willing to bet that they indulged in that same behavior when they were in school! And in a tacit and cynical way, sometimes, there are even some of them who will even encourage it! Keep the class divided and at aeach others' throats, they won't be focused on giving the teacher or administration any grief, and Lord knows they need a scapegoat!

[sgrizzle]

Let me get this straight.

1. A gay teenager who wears makeup and high heels to school asks his tormentor to  be his valentine.

2. The tormentor plots, sneaks a gun into the school and shoots said teenager in the head.

3. The whole incident makes headlines and provokes multiple agencies to seek ways to prevent the incident from occuring again.

4. A "day of silence"  is arranged to highlight said incident and bullying of non-heteros in general.

5. Teachers are evil sadisctic mastermind of a whole nationwide bullying plot.

We made a leap in there somewhere.

[mr.jaynes]

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

Let me get this straight.

1. A gay teenager who wears makeup and high heels to school asks his tormentor to  be his valentine.

2. The tormentor plots, sneaks a gun into the school and shoots said teenager in the head.

3. The whole incident makes headlines and provokes multiple agencies to seek ways to prevent the incident from occuring again.

4. A "day of silence"  is arranged to highlight said incident and bullying of non-heteros in general.

5. Teachers are evil sadisctic mastermind of a whole nationwide bullying plot.

We made a leap in there somewhere.

To take your points individually and in order:

1 and 2.

As you report it: He may had been in full dragdrag, and yes, he may had asked the tormentor (I assume he was a jock?) to be his Valentine. Well, OK, so he crossed the line, but he was being true to himself. So he was gay, so he was in drag: I say express yourself! And while he overdid it by giving his tormentor some grief,how is his tormentor entitled to a little extra respect? He sure didn't have any for his victims. The tormentor, hopefully, having plotted and carrying out his little scheme, should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, including being tried as an adult!

3 and 4:

Let's make sure that this day of observance accomplishes something, shakes educators out of their complacency, and that it forces parents to confront the values they teach-or do not teach-their children.

And as for #5, I didn't say that there was some nationwide conspiracy. But let's not act like teachers and administrators don't have a role in this, or that they are above certain sociopathic behaviors. They do often turn a blind eye to this sort of behavior, they do tend to occasionally foster this kind of coarse behavior. Yes, they do tend to occasionally pit the kids against each other.

While I myself was not in a similar circumstance as a victim, such as the murdered student, I was for sure never bullied. I realized that the teachers and principals weren't going to help me and I was way too proud to run away from a fight. And lest you think this was in some inner city school, I am in fact talking about Broken Arrow.

[sgrizzle]

I wasn't trying to make any point with 1-4, just summarizing, but yes, I believe he should be tried for 1st degree as an adult.

A large chunk of my family is educators and I think consistently limiting what teachers can do, paying them pocket change, and then saying the teachers hold the blame seems a bit misguided. A lot of people to blame. Kids, parents, etc. etc. and I think teachers are barely in the top 10.

[mr.jaynes]

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

I wasn't trying to make any point with 1-4, just summarizing, but yes, I believe he should be tried for 1st degree as an adult.

A large chunk of my family is educators and I think consistently limiting what teachers can do, paying them pocket change, and then saying the teachers hold the blame seems a bit misguided. A lot of people to blame. Kids, parents, etc. etc. and I think teachers are barely in the top 10.

Yes, try the kid who brought in the gun (and lest I offend, I assure you that I'm a firm believer in the right to keep and own and bear arms: I am indeed a gun owner).

I doubt that the parents taught that kid good values, assuming they were around to teach him anything at all (so many are so completely caught up in their careers and other pursuits to even be bothered with their kids), so maybe we need to look at them a little closely too.

As for the school: to countenance (or even should they have fostered that kind of environment) at school is abominable; I say countenance, because if they are not looking at the solution, then they are contributing to the problem. Let's look at the principals and teachers, see what they knew, when they knew it, what they allowed, and go from there.

As for the principals and teachers, you've got good ones, you've got bad ones. But they went into this profession knowing fully well that the pay wasn't going to be that good and that the management of a classroom and even a school itself, wasn't going to be a high-dollar payday and could be potentially stressful. They knew what they were getting. But, being in charge, they should make sure that things like this do not take place on their watch. If it's too much for them, perhaps they should quit their profession.