Form-Based Codes in the Pearl

[booWorld]

quote:Originally posted by Chicken Little

If you don't trust yourself or your neighbors enough to allow yourselves to attempt produce something beneficial, then I guess you have no choice.

I completely trust myself enough to allow myself to produce something beneficial for me.

I don't necessarily trust my neighbors enough to allow them to attempt to produce something beneficial for me or themselves.

I certainly do NOT trust INCOG staff to produce something beneficial for me or my neighbors.

"Then we'll get a three-bedroom house with a white picket fence and a gun and a lawyer, so smile!
Gonna get a homeowner's loan;
Gonna get an unlisted phone,
Gonna get away from a town gone insane.
And we'll get a three-bedroom house -- affordable three bedroom house...
With a great big pit bull on a chain!"    ~Laurence O'Keefe

[mrhaskellok]

Great topic...I wish there was discussions like this in the municipality and at town hall meetings on a regular basis.  This is a concept of thinking that will take time to adapt to but should be considered nevertheless.

I have one question for everyone.  There is a concern about keeping up with facade technology and style.  I agree, bureaucracies don't tend to keep up with these things very well.  So, my question is this;

Is there a way to simply require a builder to spend so much on the facade that it would ensure proper quality?  In other words, a % of an amount on the building permit MUST go toward the facade of the building.

I can see holes in my idea, but I am curious what other think.  If we can somehow link the incentive to something not related to the actual materials used, perhaps we can achieve the same result.

[Chicken Little]

quote:Originally posted by hoodlum

my god i need to check my spelling and grammar but alas when you are typing as fast as you can so you can go pick up your wife to take her to the U2 in 3D show sometimes you miss things...a lot of things.

Oh, we saw that too.  It's really pretty spectacular.

I think that setback is important, and the scale is important with the street facade, i.e., the plane of the building that is nearest the street, usually at the setback line.  But, if you want to increase the mass of the structure, you can often do it towards the back half of the structure and still preserve the continuity along the street.  And detached rear-yard buildings, even two-story ones, are perfectly fine with me.  But I also think there are certain architectural features associated with the front facade that help define a neighborhood and should be regulated, e.g., front porches and garage placement.

As for materials, eh, I'm pretty ambivalent.  Sadly, that's the first thing people without design knowledge run to and it's the thing that has the least impact on the outcome.  You can incorporate every material in the neighborhood and still end up with a jumbled mess that sticks out like a sore thumb.  It's not the material, it's how it's used.

PS:  Don't worry about spelling.  But, if you want, Firefox has a built-in spellchecker.

[booWorld]

quote:Originally posted by Chicken Little

I think that setback is important, and the scale is important with the street facade, i.e., the plane of the building that is nearest the street, usually at the setback line.  But, if you want to increase the mass of the structure, you can often do it towards the back half of the structure and still preserve the continuity along the street.

Seems I've heard this idea discussed recently -- hmmm -- oh, yes -- Michael Bates mentioned it on KFAQ AM1170 radio.  I'm not sure if I should trust anything the talking heads say on that station, however.

quote:
And detached rear-yard buildings, even two-story ones, are perfectly fine with me.

Those accessory buildings are fine with me too, but some of my neighbors absolutely despise them.  

quote:
But I also think there are certain architectural features associated with the front facade that help define a neighborhood and should be regulated, e.g., front porches and garage placement.

Those types of regulations don't really bother me either, as long as they are unanimously agreed upon and self-imposed.

quote:
As for materials, eh, I'm pretty ambivalent.  Sadly, that's the first thing people without design knowledge run to and it's the thing that has the least impact on the outcome.

I thought the first thing people without design knowledge ran to was the white chocolate hot chocolate dispenser.

quote:You can incorporate every material in the neighborhood and still end up with a jumbled mess that sticks out like a sore thumb.

Now, that's one of the truest statements I've ever seen posted on this forum -- EVER.

"Little boxes on the hillside, little boxes made of ticky tacky
Little boxes on the hillside, little boxes all the same,
There's a green one and a pink one and a blue one and a yellow one
And they're all made out of ticky tacky and they all look just the same."     ~Malvina Reynolds  

[booWorld]

quote:Originally posted by mrhaskellok

This is a concept of thinking that will take time to adapt to but should be considered nevertheless.

I agree wholeheartedly.

quote:
I have one question for everyone.  There is a concern about keeping up with facade technology and style.  I agree, bureaucracies don't tend to keep up with these things very well.  So, my question is this;

Is there a way to simply require a builder to spend so much on the facade that it would ensure proper quality?  In other words, a % of an amount on the building permit MUST go toward the facade of the building.

I can see holes in my idea, but I am curious what other think.

That type of requirement won't work.  According to the City of Tulsa's website, the contract amount for the renovation of Boston Avenue between 3rd and 10th was $5.5 million.  That's an average of $785,000 per block; $2,000 per lineal foot of street; $25 per square foot.  I'm assuming that since most of the sidewalk work was done between 3rd and 7th, then the averages are higher for those four block, and lower for the other three.  In general, the quality of the new sidewalks is less than the quality of the old sidewalks was.  Spending lots of money doesn't necessarily guarantee quality.

A certain amount of money could be spent on an expensive but relatively fragile material.  

A certain amount of money could be spent on an excellent facade panel system, but the installation of the panels could be lacking.

As the percentage of building cost dedicated to the facade rises, then the percentage which could be spent on other components of the building must be lower.  The foundation needs to be fully funded and built, otherwise the entire building could collapse.  The plumbing system would require a certain portion of the building budget, otherwise occupants would be in deep you-know-what.  Who decides how much of a building's cost will be devoted to each component and system?  A bureaucrat?  A building contractor?  A neighborhood association?


"Little boxes on the hillside, little boxes made of ticky tacky
Little boxes on the hillside, little boxes all the same,
There's a green one and a pink one and a blue one and a yellow one
And they're all made out of ticky tacky and they all look just the same."     ~Malvina Reynolds  

[LongtimeTulsan]

What's important is the fact a discussion is happening - and one that finally seems to have some muster behind it. Those that have travelled widely and relish the forethought of city planners often return to Tulsa with a strong "ugh" as we look at the vacant box stores (what archeticutural feature are they?); the miles of strip malls, etc. etc. Many of these urban areas have very strict codes and because these public / private / business areas work in harmony with each other, these codes are championed and cherished. The infill issues - as they invade the mid-town area - are forcing the issue.