Man, pregnant? I call BS.

[cannon_fodder]

Some guy in Oregon claims to be the first male pregnancy.  I heard this "news" item a few days ago and just kind of ignored it.  But it keeps popping up in headlines - so I read one.

The guy has a vagina and a uterus.  

He was a she, but had a mastectomy and takes testosterone pills.  If you want to present yourself as a man, call yourself a man, marry a woman as a man, and for all intents and purposes live as a man - that's fine with me.  I really don't care.  I'll call you Bob, refer to you as "he," or whatever you want.  

But medically speaking a person with a uterus and a vagina is a woman.  A male has a penis and testes that produce sperm.  A female has a vagina and uterus that produces eggs.  Basic reproductive knowledge here.

So I fail to see the big deal about a person who lives their life as a man but is medically a woman - getting pregnant.  Am I missing something on this or are the headlines misleading the hype way over blown?  Is this a big deal because of the transgender thing - not the scientific interest in the case, that makes it interesting?  I was expecting something about a HE that became a she that got pregnant... now that would be impressive medically.

Am I missing something here?  I feel cheated.

http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSN0337888820080403?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&rpc=22&sp=true%22%22

[Breadburner]

Someone shoot it.....

[TheArtist]

I think you need to quit reading crap articles lol.


However, lets have a little "what if" fun with this.

Lets say sometime in the not so far future, you were in an accident. The only way to save "you" was to transplant your brain into the body of a brain dead woman.  When you woke up, would "you" consider your"self" as a man or a woman?


I remember reading the story in college about a lady who was having problems getting pregnant. She went to the doctors, they ran a battery of tests, one was a genetic test. Lo and behold she had XY chomosomes. She had had no idea, she had not been reassigned because of ambiguous genitalia at birth or something like that. She had always been a female. The sad part of the story was that she recounted about how her husband began to abuse her, beat her and call her a freak. They later divorced, it was not a good experience.

Similar stories happened when they started genetically testing people for the olympics to make sure men werent posing as women and cheating. One girl was in college training for the olympics. Got the genetic test and too found out she had XY chomosomes. This was before it was well known that this kind of thing could even happen. She was not allowed to play, lost her scholarship, and her fiance left her.

You see, we are all taught an oversimplified story about how "boys become boys and girls become girls". If you get xy chromosomes your a boy, xx your a girl. (occasionally they will throw in fragile-x, xxy, xyy, etc examples)  But what is a more precise story is that its all about those wonderful little "Hormones".  Yes the chromosomes are supposed to regulate the balance of hormones and thus what developes, but this does not always go perfectly.

If you miss the importance of hormones, if the story is not told from that perspective, you miss out on a lot of important basic facts, ideas, differences, and possibilites that can exist.

If there are real physical differences between a male and female brain. If they arent exactly the same and its hormones that cause the differences... What would happen if during development those hormones for a time fluctuated, were influenced by extra hormones of some type from the environment, from the mother, extra hormones were added, or blocked, the balance tipped in one direction or another. What if the developing brain or body was genetically more succeptible to exterior influences or the genetics themselves weren't  regulating perfectly.

Remember, we all basically have the same parts, in the body and brain. We all get the same hormones, we all get both male hormones and female hormones.  Its the balance that "tips the scale" one direction or another. Or sometimes not all the way. Or sometimes even the reverse of what the chromosomes "should have" done.

There is still some debate as to what should happen if a baby has ambiguous sex organs. Do you make a descision then and operate? Or do you wait and let the person decide when they are grown? For even if you make a best guess by looking externally or internally, or even genetically, "you dont always know what effect the hormones had on the brain". If its likely there were fluctuations that caused the parts you can see to be ambiguous. Its also very likely that there were fluctuations that caused the male and female parts you cant see, in the brain, to be different. Thats again supposing that you agree that there are differences between a female brain and a male brain. "say, Are men supposed to be attracted to females because of some biological reason? is there some "wiring" in the brain thats set that way? and the opposite way for women?" What would happen if it were reversed, if the hormones fluctuated or were not the proper balance for some reason during the time when that part of the brain was being laid down? Somewhere in between perhaps? Hmmm  If we know that these things happen on the outside, mightnt they happen on the inside where you cant see?

What are some of the other characteristics that define the differences between men and womens brains that are biological, that have something to do with the way we think, see the world, react? What would happen if those hormones fluctuated during the times those parts were forming. Would a guy perhaps like flowers, poetry, and reading maps more than usual? Would A girl like truck pulls, not gossip, be lousy with children and love math?  I know I am being silly with those examples. But more and more we do find that there are real differences between the "wiring" of boys and girls brains that influence those stereotyped behaviors we often apply to boys and girls. Perhaps there is a positive aspect of a little variety, a little mixing of characteristics and not having absolute extremes. Perhaps its just because, the way little girls get to be little girls and boys, boys, doesnt always go perfectly. And we know that boys have more genetic problems "autism" than girls. Not everything goes perfectly. We hope they all have 10 fingers and toes, but if not we want every child, and every adult, to live a happy healthy life.

[custosnox]

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist




Lets say sometime in the not so far future, you were in an accident. The only way to save "you" was to transplant your brain into the body of a brain dead woman.  When you woke up, would "you" consider your"self" as a man or a woman?

I would see myself as a very lesbian woman.  But then, I now see myself as a very lesbian man, so I guess I wouldn't change that much.

[TheArtist]

quote:Originally posted by custosnox

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist




Lets say sometime in the not so far future, you were in an accident. The only way to save "you" was to transplant your brain into the body of a brain dead woman.  When you woke up, would "you" consider your"self" as a man or a woman?

I would see myself as a very lesbian woman.  But then, I now see myself as a very lesbian man, so I guess I wouldn't change that much.

Wow you must be reeeeally butch.

[cannon_fodder]

I don't pretend to have any understanding of sexual identity.  I know who I am, but I really don't know why.  So if my brain were reassigned I can't imagine what I might think - let alone how different hormones would effect me.  In fact, with a new set of hardware I might never leave the house.  []  But really, I just have no idea.

And like I said, I tried to avoid the article.  But the thing was everywhere.  KRMG, Drudge, NPR, and finally it was on Oprah and everyone had that story.  I need to work on my resistance to mass media I guess.

[MDepr2007]

The switch of subject topic was made quick and with a long artistic touch. Lot's of lost subjects here ,breathing and non breathing.

[TheArtist]

Sorry, just started typing and went with the flow and suddenly there was a whole page worth of rambling lol.

[MDepr2007]

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

Sorry, just started typing and went with the flow and suddenly there was a whole page worth of rambling lol.

NP here, just stirring it up for the weekend.

[Conan71]

It's a couple of lesbians having a child...it's selling a lot more revenue with this spin on it though.

[TheArtist]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

It's a couple of lesbians having a child...it's selling a lot more revenue with this spin on it though.

I hear Brittney is the father.

[jamesrage]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

Some guy in Oregon claims to be the first male pregnancy.  I heard this "news" item a few days ago and just kind of ignored it.  But it keeps popping up in headlines - so I read one.

The guy has a vagina and a uterus.  

He was a she, but had a mastectomy and takes testosterone pills.  If you want to present yourself as a man, call yourself a man, marry a woman as a man, and for all intents and purposes live as a man - that's fine with me.  I really don't care.  I'll call you Bob, refer to you as "he," or whatever you want.  

But medically speaking a person with a uterus and a vagina is a woman.  A male has a penis and testes that produce sperm.  A female has a vagina and uterus that produces eggs.  Basic reproductive knowledge here.

So I fail to see the big deal about a person who lives their life as a man but is medically a woman - getting pregnant.  Am I missing something on this or are the headlines misleading the hype way over blown?  Is this a big deal because of the transgender thing - not the scientific interest in the case, that makes it interesting?  I was expecting something about a HE that became a she that got pregnant... now that would be impressive medically.

Am I missing something here?  I feel cheated.

http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSN0337888820080403?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&rpc=22&sp=true%22%22

Thats part of the gay agenda for for you.If some sicko thinks she is a he then who are we to say she is not a he.As far as I am concerned all the drugs and surgery in the world will not change what you really are.If you are born a male then you are a male, if you are born a female then you are a female.

[TheArtist]

quote:Originally posted by jamesrage

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

Some guy in Oregon claims to be the first male pregnancy.  I heard this "news" item a few days ago and just kind of ignored it.  But it keeps popping up in headlines - so I read one.

The guy has a vagina and a uterus.  

He was a she, but had a mastectomy and takes testosterone pills.  If you want to present yourself as a man, call yourself a man, marry a woman as a man, and for all intents and purposes live as a man - that's fine with me.  I really don't care.  I'll call you Bob, refer to you as "he," or whatever you want.  

But medically speaking a person with a uterus and a vagina is a woman.  A male has a penis and testes that produce sperm.  A female has a vagina and uterus that produces eggs.  Basic reproductive knowledge here.

So I fail to see the big deal about a person who lives their life as a man but is medically a woman - getting pregnant.  Am I missing something on this or are the headlines misleading the hype way over blown?  Is this a big deal because of the transgender thing - not the scientific interest in the case, that makes it interesting?  I was expecting something about a HE that became a she that got pregnant... now that would be impressive medically.

Am I missing something here?  I feel cheated.

http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSN0337888820080403?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&rpc=22&sp=true%22%22

.......If you are born a male then you are a male, if you are born a female then you are a female.

Exactly, I couldn't agree more.

[Wilbur]

The dude is still a chick.