Bill Limiting Attorney Fees

[cannon_fodder]

I'm not saying Guido is paying lip service to the measure, just that in general the defense bar at large pretty well has to - no matter how they actually feel about it (you wouldn't have to on a internet forum).

My main point was the only mention of Jeff Martin was vague until you brought him up.  I casually referenced him in a neutral light, you turned this into a thread about him.  I have no ill will towards Jeff Martin, never met the man and I am not familiar with his legal practices.

Am I jealous of his income?  I don't know what his income is.  If he makes mega bucks, then sure I am.  But that doesn't mean I wish him ill (he is not taking money from me).

Do I think Martin and Garret help the image of the legal profession?  No, not really.  But they serve a niche market of people that very well may not have representation if it weren't for them and often do just need industrial legal services.  I don't want to sound derogatory towards their services, they have plenty of satisfied clients and I know at least some of their attorneys to be competent (I don't know them all, clearly), but they are bulk practices.

So I have no particular animosity nor affinity for those firms.

[Conan71]

My father (Bob 70) would be doing a flat spin in his grave if he knew how commercialized the legal profession has allowed itself to become in the last 35 years and how slip and fall litigation has turned into a huge industry.

[Hometown]

The partners at my last firm were doing about $850,000 a year back in 2003.  But they weren't happy with that and they brought in a consultant to work with them to boost their earnings.  It was a High Tech firm and the Associates tended to very young.  The Associates started at $145,000 -- right out of law school.  The firm used a caterer to provide dinner every night and no one paid for their parking or their cab home.  Then there were the bonuses and benefits and ... oh, good grief, who needs, personal injury.  Let's do mergers and acquisitions and initial public offerings and make some serious money.

Which reminds me, the first thing Ronald Reagan cut when he came into office was legal aid for low income people.

[Rex]

Well, I know my boss laughs all the way to the bank.  He's a good lawyer, but I respect him because he has no problem bringing in another law firm on the case if he thinks that would benefit the client.  He seems to treat his law practice like a business. It works very well for him.  I have learned a lot of sound business principles about cash flow, avoiding debt, resource management etc.

My comment on the jealousy factor is only half-serious, but I do wonder because of the freedom these guys seem to have...not having to be in a coat and tie at a particular place, at a particular time.

And Gold about not being a good member of the bar, I know for a fact my boss has assisted the OBA with winding up the practice of lawyers who have screwed around with their trust accounts.  I worked on one such project.  He put in a lot of time and effort and got no pay, no reward and no public recognition (no award). He just helped quite a few people who had been screwed over.  So, I think that's being a good member of the bar, don't you?

As for crazy commercials, aren't all commercials a little out of whack now anyway? In all due respect conan, what would your father say about Trojan or KY ads, or the use of a half clothed Brittany Spears to sell pepsi?  We live in 2009 and the bounds of good taste went out the window years and years ago.  In an era where we are constantly bombarded with information, that which is memorable is what is successful.  Sometimes, the cheezier, the better.

I think we have strayed from the OP and just FYI, for the lawyers here; in particular Conan, cannon-fodder, and Guido. hile I may not agree with each of you, I enjoy your posts which almost always seem to be well reasoned and cordial.

[Rex]

Hometown, I think you are right.  I should get that LLM in Securities and make real money![}:)]

Personal Injury just seems kind of easy...

[cannon_fodder]

Lets go ask those security lawyers how much money they made in 2008.  It is a boom or bust industry with low numbers.  If you can be a member of the club you'll be fine.  But getting into the club is the hard part.

Seriously, if you are an attorney and your goal is to make money:  leave Tulsa.  Instant $10,000 raise at a minimum.    Not that there are not attorneys who make money in Tulsa and not that most attorneys don't do OK.  But the $850,000 a year or even the $145,000 a year guys are not the norm.  Go to the BLS website and get back to me...

[pmcalk]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

My father (Bob 70) would be doing a flat spin in his grave if he knew how commercialized the legal profession has allowed itself to become in the last 35 years and how slip and fall litigation has turned into a huge industry.

There was a time when lawyers and the medical profession were considered above advertisement.  Now, the airwaves are filled with Jeff Martin and Cialis.  Some say it cheapens the profession, but others say it provides information to people so they can make better decisions.  Thirty-five years ago, before attorneys advertised on tv, one had very little recourse to find an attorney.  Big companies knew lawyers through connections and country clubs.  Average citizens don't belong to country clubs.  Now, PI attorneys can reach their audience where they are most likely to be (apparently, watching really bad daytime tv).  I think the commercials are cheesy, but so are many, many commercials.  That's what Tivo is for.

[cannon_fodder]

Also 35 years ago the number of attorneys was restricted the same way the number of MDs is restricted today.  When the BAR limited the number of admissions in a given year they were limiting supply, of course demand was nearly constant so they greatly inflated the price of an attorney.  

Unfortunately for me, the Supreme Court ruled that the practice deprived average people of adequate legal representation and the quota was changed to "if you are qualified you can practice law."  So in an attempt to increase demand, or to get a piece of what there was advertising took on more significance.

Still today the AMA limits the number of MDs admitted each year.  The limit is not "qualified to practice" it's "we should admit X% of what we think we will need to meet demand" and that number is admitted to medical schools.  And it is assured that X+allowed immigration will be less than the 100% demanded.  Of course demand doesn't change because of that.  Hence, we never have enough MDs and the price is artificially high.  

Cause and effect.  Allow more people to practice, the price goes down and arguably the quality goes down.  BUT, you can go to a cheap lawyer, and expensive lawyer, or do it yourself.  It's the consumers option, not the BAR association's.

[Hometown]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

Lets go ask those security lawyers how much money they made in 2008.  It is a boom or bust industry with low numbers.  If you can be a member of the club you'll be fine.  But getting into the club is the hard part.

Seriously, if you are an attorney and your goal is to make money:  leave Tulsa.  Instant $10,000 raise at a minimum.    Not that there are not attorneys who make money in Tulsa and not that most attorneys don't do OK.  But the $850,000 a year or even the $145,000 a year guys are not the norm.  Go to the BLS website and get back to me...

That firm had equity stakes in a good number of very successful initial public offerings and I imagine they are doing as well now as they did in the dot com bust where they cut out the free sodas -- period.

But my point is to draw contrast in the surreal world that I live in, where the bourgeoisie doesn't even pay for its cab rides opposed to a working class that can't make rent, much less hire an attorney.

The working class has no real advocates at all in this pay to play world.  They have no representation in state government.  Their only shot at voice in this whole process is an attorney willing to take on their cause on a contingency basis because he or she might make some money.

Even the middle class would be hard pressed to have a day in court without contingency fees.

Limiting attorneys' fees in contingency contracts will make it nearly impossible for many average people to seek justice.  And that's a prescription for class conflict.

[Gold]

quote:Originally posted by Rex

Well, I know my boss laughs all the way to the bank.  He's a good lawyer, but I respect him because he has no problem bringing in another law firm on the case if he thinks that would benefit the client.  He seems to treat his law practice like a business. It works very well for him.  I have learned a lot of sound business principles about cash flow, avoiding debt, resource management etc.

My comment on the jealousy factor is only half-serious, but I do wonder because of the freedom these guys seem to have...not having to be in a coat and tie at a particular place, at a particular time.

And Gold about not being a good member of the bar, I know for a fact my boss has assisted the OBA with winding up the practice of lawyers who have screwed around with their trust accounts.  I worked on one such project.  He put in a lot of time and effort and got no pay, no reward and no public recognition (no award). He just helped quite a few people who had been screwed over.  So, I think that's being a good member of the bar, don't you?

As for crazy commercials, aren't all commercials a little out of whack now anyway? In all due respect conan, what would your father say about Trojan or KY ads, or the use of a half clothed Brittany Spears to sell pepsi?  We live in 2009 and the bounds of good taste went out the window years and years ago.  In an era where we are constantly bombarded with information, that which is memorable is what is successful.  Sometimes, the cheezier, the better.

I think we have strayed from the OP and just FYI, for the lawyers here; in particular Conan, cannon-fodder, and Guido. hile I may not agree with each of you, I enjoy your posts which almost always seem to be well reasoned and cordial.

I didn't say your boss wasn't a good member of the bar.  You asked about the bulk PI guys in general and why people turn their noses up at them.  Some of it is fair, some of it is total crap.  But if you got some of the snob types talking, that's what they'd say.