Use of BOK Center - Mayor Taylor vs. Tulsa Talons

[DowntownNow]

And by the way, this is the first time I've heard of people jumping on Christiansen being against the Mayor on anything.  Before he sided with her on the street's package, he was recently tapped by her to lead a committee on revamping neighborhood notice and voice in development.  Doesn't seem like someone thats out to get the Mayor to me.

[cannon_fodder]

Why wasn't there a contract in place for this wedding reception?

I don't know the contacting policies of the BOK Center nor other similarly situated centers.   If a contract is the norm and one was not signed because of the specific party booking the BOK Center, that is an issue.  If it is not the norm at the BOK Center, I would like to know if it is the norm in the industry.   If yes, and the BOK Center does not do it, we need better contracting procedures.

But given the facts stipulated, I can not accuse the Mayor of malfeasance in this regard.  Worth questioning?  Yes.  But the possibility of a scandal does not a scandal make.

Why did a non-contracted event get to change the Talon's schedule?

Because the Talons decided not to exercise their right of first refusal.  They passed on May 30th and May 2nd and allowed other parties to use those dates.  They profit more from dates later in the summer.  (all that is in the article).

[DowntownNow]

Thank you Cannon in answering my questions.  Talons were allowed to authorize their right of first refusal under the contract terms they have with the BOK...since there were no contract terms with the Taylor/Frame party then anyone could have come in, signed a contract and taken that date from them?

The bigger question would be how were the Talons presented with the conflict?  Were they told there was a contracted party that was seeking the May 30th date and would they like to use their first right of refusal?  Or were they told a party had already contracted for May 30th and therefore didnt Talons didnt have a right to first refusal as the date had already been secured by agreement?  The same would be used for say Taylor Swift, a date is planned and if the Talons had already not finalized a schedule, they would be subject to having to work around the already contracted and secured (by compensation) date of Swift no?

[Renaissance]

This whole thing just seems pretty sad.  I feel terrible for Elizabeth Frame.  Hope Christiansen is happy - it makes me wonder if he has any daughters.

[cannon_fodder]

Downtownnow:

I must make it clear that I am not privy to the contract provisions of the Talons - BOK Center contract (or at least I have not reviewed them).  Likewise, I do not know the standards in the industry.  But with that disclaimer . . .

The article that has given credence to this rumor stays:

Ross said the Talons had the right to refuse to give up the May 30 date. Had the change come after the schedule was finalized, it would have been a "bad deal," he said.

Indicating they had a right of first refusal on that date.  Meaning they could say "no, we are playing on that date.  The other event has to move.  Sorry."  It goes on to say:

It wasn't until later that Primeaux learned the wedding event involved Taylor's daughter, he said.

"This didn't really cause us any angst," he said.

Primeaux said one May date is fine, and the team would rather have more games in the summer.

Which is important for two reason:

#1) They were apparently not aware who it was that wanted the May 30th date

and

#2) They were willing to give up the May date in exchange for a later summer date because they prefer more summer games (presumably people like going to events in the AC when it is 190F outside).

SO . . .

Anyone would have taken the date from them if they chose to give it up.  You, me, anyone who wanted the venue could have requested the date from the BOK Center and they would work with the Talons to free that date up.   The Talons have (or had at the time) the right to say "NO, we already have that date set."  But they did not execute that right.

And finally, the tone of the comments from the Talons seems to indicate it was the former of your propositions.  That they were presented with the option of giving up the date in favor of a later summer date (I do not know of any carrots or sticks involved in their contract, maybe a discount for the moved date?) and decided it was in their best interest.  Again, this presents us with the possibility of a scandal in that undue influence could have been used.

Lacking evidence that this transaction was somehow out of what an ordinary person could accomplish, I see no scandal.  I sincerely do appreciate people looking into it (all public servants should be scrutinized for favoritism or any abuse of office) - but I don't think it bears fruit.   

FWIW, I voted for LaFortune.  I like Mayor Taylor personally and have had the opportunity to meet her several times.   I like her general attitude and would give her a "B-" for a performance grade but think the city hall move was unwise.  So while I am amicable towards the mayor, my defense of her here is not out of a sense of loyalty.  I was ready with my pitchfork if the allegations as presented were factual, but I don't see it that way.

[Cats Cats Cats]

In a slightly off topic to the this vs that.  I think it is pretty cool that the Talons would move a game to free up for somebody willing to pay for the Arena.  Of course they would have to replace another game at a later date.  I am assuming the Talons game produces more $$$ for the city.

[Conan71]

It is not uncommon for a venue owner to hold a date in advance of having a signed contract.  Legally, someone else could have come in with a major concert or wedding reception, or dinner for two for $15K and the BOK Center could have told the Frame wedding party to find another venue.  Did that happen?  Not that I'm aware of.  It could well be that there was a hand-shake agreement that the BOK Center wouldn't sign a Kx with the wedding party until X-number of days prior to the event in case a larger, sales tax-producing event wanted the hall, there's no evidence to the contrary of a theory like that.

I still fail to see anything evil, nor is my corruption meter going off suggesting that some sort of policy was waived for Miss Frame because of who her mother is.

If you are really disturbed about this DTN, please call John Bolton or one of the Talons owners and ask them your questions instead of querying a bunch of people from the peanut gallery.  I have no direct knowledge of any policy of the BOK Center or the Talons, but I've been involved enough in event planning from both sides over the years, I have a good general knowledge of how this stuff works at other venues.

[nathanm]

I love how no one can address the actual questions (or all of them) posed in a comment.  So let me repost:

Why wasn't there a contract in place for this wedding reception? 
Why did a non-contracted event get to change the Talon's schedule?

Because it was still over 60 days out.

Because things aren't nearly as set in stone as you seem to think they are. If I call up and say that I want to hold "foo" at the BOk center, they'll probably let me schedule the date without signing a contract until 30-60 days prior to the event. When the Talons go ask about dates, the management will say "we have events scheduled for these dates." The Talons then get to decide whether they want to preempt any of those other events. They probably try not to unless it actually matters.

If someone else comes asking for the date, the management will say "we have someone tentatively scheduled for that date," then call me up to make sure I'm for reals and try to settle the scheduling conflict amicably.

None of this is a problem. The problem in this town is the people who see conspiracies under every stone. Maybe we have a higher than usual concentration of untreated schizophrenics or something. Seriously. There was nothing to this story and there still is nothing to it.

[Hoss]

Because it was still over 60 days out.

Because things aren't nearly as set in stone as you seem to think they are. If I call up and say that I want to hold "foo" at the BOk center, they'll probably let me schedule the date without signing a contract until 30-60 days prior to the event. When the Talons go ask about dates, the management will say "we have events scheduled for these dates." The Talons then get to decide whether they want to preempt any of those other events. They probably try not to unless it actually matters.

If someone else comes asking for the date, the management will say "we have someone tentatively scheduled for that date," then call me up to make sure I'm for reals and try to settle the scheduling conflict amicably.

None of this is a problem. The problem in this town is the people who see conspiracies under every stone. Maybe we have a higher than usual concentration of untreated schizophrenics or something. Seriously. There was nothing to this story and there still is nothing to it.

If it's similiar to the way you book hotel convention rooms, I've had experience in that.  You tell them that you plan to book the room, they give you a date in which contracts must be signed by, and you sign them.

Simple as that.

Once again, mountain out of a molehill.  Black helicopters are not flying overhead as some would like to think.

[sgrizzle]

[Oil Capital]

If it's similiar to the way you book hotel convention rooms, I've had experience in that.  You tell them that you plan to book the room, they give you a date in which contracts must be signed by, and you sign them.

Simple as that.

Once again, mountain out of a molehill.  Black helicopters are not flying overhead as some would like to think.

In your experience, how many days out does the signing deadline generally fall?

[Hoss]

In your experience, how many days out does the signing deadline generally fall?

In the time that I applied for a convention room at a hotel (this was actually at the O Hare Hilton in Chicago) it was 30 days.  I don't know how standard that is or if it's a standard timeframe, but that's what happened with me.

[nathanm]

In your experience, how many days out does the signing deadline generally fall?

In my limited experience (one of my clients rents out a sports arena on behalf of the owner) it largely depends on how busy the given venue is. Generally it's between 30 and 60 days for the specific venue I have knowledge of. Sometimes contracts are signed much earlier. Sometimes they are signed even later.

No deposit is requested or required until the contract is signed.

[Conan71]

The problem in this town is the people who see conspiracies under every stone. Maybe we have a higher than usual concentration of untreated schizophrenics or something. Seriously. There was nothing to this story and there still is nothing to it.

You got some karma out of me on that one, Nathan.  Bravo!

[zstyles]

So apparently the wedding is this weekend at the Philbrook..drove by and had lots of huge generators all over the place out front getting ready for tomorrow...