Is There Some Reason The Tulsa World Loves This Guy?

[Conan71]

Why does the Tulsa World keep coddling Bill Bartmann?  He's totally full of smile. One thing I can say is he's a master at PR.

Bill Bartmann is chairman and CEO of CFS II, a Tulsa-based consumer debt purchasing company. His first business, Commercial Financial Services, was founded in the 1980s and became the subject of a case study published by Harvard University's business school. Bartmann, a best-selling author, was named National Entrepreneur of the Year by Nasdaq and the Kauffman Foundation.

1: Commercial Financial Services grew very quickly but then went bankrupt and cost you, by your own estimate, $3.5 billion. Why try the same business again?

The growth of CFS may have appeared as an overnight success, but in reality it took 13 years to build that company.

The bankruptcy filing was not a function of the economics of the business - on the date of the filing, the company had $200 million in the bank and no debt - but rather was driven by legal issues surrounding allegations concerning one employee. When the investigation I commissioned concluded that the sole employee had committed a crime, Wall Street financing dried up, causing the company to discontinue operations.

While my wife and I lost an estimated $3.5 billion, we were not the only people affected. Each of our nearly 4,000 employees suffered both economically and emotionally.

Why do it again? Because it worked so well for the nearly 4,000 employees and for the 4.5 million customers we served. Our employees positively impacted the lives of each of these 4.5 million Americans by helping them get out of debt with dignity and respect. By doing it again, we get the chance to help even more people.

Read more from this Tulsa World article at http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/article.aspx?subjectid=495&articleid=20110408_51_E4_CUTLIN52779

[Teatownclown]

Totally agree, Conan. He just missed out on an orange suit.

But using your same rationale for Koch bros, he's a big employer.

[heironymouspasparagus]

You must have been in upper management (going back to work there again?).  The worker bee's loved the perks, but knew there was shady stuff going on.  And weren't real surprised when it came apart.  But they would also like to work there again.  Heck, I wouldn't mind working for the guy if he does the same things for employees!

[Conan71]

Totally agree, Conan. He just missed out on an orange suit.

But using your same rationale for Koch bros, he's a big employer.

Big difference.  The Koch Brothers make and sell things.  They create value and have staying power.  They play with their own cash.  Bartmann is no different than a bankster or commodity trader.  He's making loads of money for himself using others money by doing nothing but pushing paper around.

The collapse of CFS was inevitable.  He's a great con man who managed to wreck 4500 lives when the inevitable happened.  Still not sure why Jay Jones agreed to take the fall, but there's no way in Hell Bartmann didn't know about the whole Dimat scam.

You think Kivisto will ever have to pay for his misdeeds or did he manage to spin such a tight web the trail won't get to him until after he's dead?

[Teatownclown]

TK and GW will go free...big time gamblers. Shameful. Robbers with fountain pens....our government is in over their heads prosecuting white collar criminals.

[Conan71]

TK and GW will go free...big time gamblers. Shameful. Robbers with fountain pens....our government is in over their heads prosecuting white collar criminals.

Millions got fleeced due to Kivistos trading schemes if you believe he was one of those largely responsible for the spike in oil prices in 2008. 

[nathanm]

Millions got fleeced due to Kivistos trading schemes if you believe he was one of those largely responsible for the spike in oil prices in 2008. 

Not criminal, as best I can tell, though.

[DTowner]

The T.World's soft and gauzy treatment of Bill Bartmann has long been a mystery to me.  I wonder who the fall guy will be for the inevitable failure of CFS II?

[heironymouspasparagus]

Not criminal by virtue of getting buddies to write the laws to order.

[cynical]

Those laws were in place long before anyone outside of Kansas basketball had heard of Tom Kivisto. What people fail to acknowledge is the high burden of proof required for a criminal conviction. We can typically "know" a great deal more than we can prove beyond a reasonable doubt. Remember that mismanagement is not a crime. Making a bad estimate of market price movements is not a crime. Throwing too much money at Kivisto's favorite charities is not a crime.

Fraud is a crime. Conspiracy is a crime.  To prove any criminal charge the government has to prove each element of the offense beyond a reasonable doubt only using evidence deemed admissible by the trial judge.  There are special rules of evidence in conspiracy cases. The government has to independently prove the existence of the conspiracy before introducing a statement of a co-conspirator in support of the conspiracy charge, a requirement that greatly complicates cases involving both fraud and conspiracy. Fraud and conspiracy cases are tough to prove. And proof by circumstantial evidence requires that the only reasonable inference from the facts shown be consistent with guilt. Any other reasonable inference requires acquittal. "If the glove doesn't fit, you must acquit" was more than a mere technicality. It was a perfect example of the rule that we don't convict on mere guesswork in spite of the contrary examples that continue to emerge from our neighboring state to the south.

An example is the explanation I heard for the failure of Kivisto's oil futures scheme.  While Conan's scenario portray's Kivisto as the cause of the price spike, the alternative explanation portrays him as the victim of intentional price manipulations by competitors intent on bringing him down. Which is true? Can a jury of 12 ordinary citizens sift through the mountain of statistical evidence and find the truth? Does anyone remember what Judge Ellison did to the criminal charges against Robert Sutton? Judge Ellison was reversed on appeal, but double jeopardy meant that Sutton walked. No special pleading, please.

Not criminal by virtue of getting buddies to write the laws to order.

[nathanm]

Not criminal by virtue of getting buddies to write the laws to order.

Should it be criminal to hedge poorly?

There was a lot of provable fraud in the TBTF banks, especially related to mortgages, but also related to CDS, but a decision was made not to prosecute the vast majority of those cases. I haven't seen one iota of evidence indicating anything criminal happened at SemGroup. Stupid, perhaps, but not criminal.

[swake]

Should it be criminal to hedge poorly?

There was a lot of provable fraud in the TBTF banks, especially related to mortgages, but also related to CDS, but a decision was made not to prosecute the vast majority of those cases. I haven't seen one iota of evidence indicating anything criminal happened at SemGroup. Stupid, perhaps, but not criminal.

Didn't I hear at one time that the rumor was that Kivisto wasn't the reason that the price of oil spiked that summer, it was that T Boone was playing against Kivisto and won. Kivisto was hedging on the oil in his pipelines, betting on the price to fall between when the oil entered his system and when it left, and T Boone was on other side pushing the price up and succeeded in crushing Kivisto with a big payday for himself.  Nothing illegal, just big boys playing poker with other peoples money, and someone had to lose.

[HazMatCFO]

"It's not what you know, it's what you can prove." - Detective Alonzo Harris, Training Day.

[heironymouspasparagus]

All of the above. 

Like how it is legal for state legislators to have "consulting" companies.  Sell a "product" to the open market.  And when that open market happens to be advocating a particular high profit point, well, if they can both get what they want, more power to them.

Yep, Big Boys playing with OPM (other peoples money).  And we get to subsidize them with the 15% solution in the tax code.  Hooray for us!  The real engine of the American Economic Miracle (otherwise known as sheeple.)

There is no hope since the people in office have learned they can vote themselves whatever benefit they want.