Open Carry, HB3354, Passes In Oklahoma

[Gaspar]

If one was to check the archives of city ordnances on carrying guns in the open I am sure among the dust you will find where most cities in the west required the checking of guns when you entered the city.
Having had a permit to carry a gun before the present law was passed, when the permit was handed to me, was told "This is your permit to be charged for murder".
My greatest fear was a policeman mistaking the reaching for the permit thinking I was reaching for the gun I was carrying.

Don't keep the permit in your holster.

[shadows]

Don't keep the permit in your holster.

Had permit in billfold.  Had to reach over the gun to get billfold from back pocket. Didn’t think about pinning it on front of coat. Those with permits today are subject to being justified killed.  If exercising open carry and stopped by a plain clothes policeman don’t place your hand on your  gun cowboy style or you can become another casualty.  Still if the person is in plain clothes and you are exercising open carry make sure the gun is strapped down so a criminal cannot grab it and shoot you.  If you are accosted by a criminal just tell them to wait a minute till you get your gun loose where you can get it out of the holster and point it at them.   

[Townsend]

If you are accosted by a criminal just tell them to wait a minute till you get your gun loose where you can get it out of the holster and point it at them.   

and then; "gimme another second partner, I need to pull this here hammer back..."

[Hoss]

and then; "gimme another second partner, I need to pull this here hammer back..."

Something about getting to the town square before sundown I'm sure applied as well.

Sent from my Atrix4G with fat fingers

[Gaspar]

Had permit in billfold.  Had to reach over the gun to get billfold from back pocket. Didn't think about pinning it on front of coat. Those with permits today are subject to being justified killed.  If exercising open carry and stopped by a plain clothes policeman don't place your hand on your  gun cowboy style or you can become another casualty.  Still if the person is in plain clothes and you are exercising open carry make sure the gun is strapped down so a criminal cannot grab it and shoot you.  If you are accosted by a criminal just tell them to wait a minute till you get your gun loose where you can get it out of the holster and point it at them.   

When you are stopped by an officer, the proper response is "I have a firearm in the car, and a license to carry it."

He will then ask you where it is.  It may be on your person or in the glove compartment.  If it is in the glove compartment or on your person, there should never be a shell in the chamber, and the safety should be engaged (if you have one).  A chambered weapon constitutes intent.  If you are fearful that you cannot engage an unchambered firearm fast enough, then you have no business carrying a one.  From pull to slide to safety, it takes me .6 of a second.

The officer will ask that you exit the vehicle.  He will ask if your weapon is loaded.  You response is yes.  He will ask if it is chambered.  Your response should be no.  He will remove the weapon from your person or your car and secure it.

He will ask for proper documentation, issue any citation necessary, run any serials, and return the unloaded weapon to you before you part ways.  

You would be very surprised at how often this scenario occurs every day.  It's not scary for you or for the officer.  When an officer verifies that you have a CC, he knows immediately that you have gone through a 60-90 day criminal background check conducted by the OSBI.  Your fingerprints have been scanned and checked against federal databases, and you are without felony or prior convictions for violence.  

You have just become the safest guy he's going to meet all day!

[Townsend]

When you are stopped by an officer, the proper response is "I have a firearm in the car, and a license to carry it."

He will then ask you where it is.  It may be on your person or in the glove compartment.  If it is in the glove compartment or on your person, there should never be a shell in the chamber, and the safety should be engaged (if you have one).  A chambered weapon constitutes intent.  If you are fearful that you cannot engage an unchambered firearm fast enough, then you have no business carrying a one.  From pull to slide to safety, it takes me .6 of a second.

The officer will ask that you exit the vehicle.  He will ask if your weapon is loaded.  You response is yes.  He will ask if it is chambered.  Your response should be no.  He will remove the weapon from your person or your car and secure it.

He will ask for proper documentation, issue any citation necessary, run any serials, and return the unloaded weapon to you before you part ways.  

You would be very surprised at how often this scenario occurs every day.  It's not scary for you or for the officer.  When an officer verifies that you have a CC, he knows immediately that you have gone through a 60-90 day criminal background check conducted by the OSBI.  Your fingerprints have been scanned and checked against federal databases, and you are without felony or prior convictions for violence.  

You have just become the safest guy he's going to meet all day!

From the TV shows I've seen and dash cam video I would expect a lot of screaming and crying in that scenario...and someone would be down on the ground with a foot on his neck.  Probably seen too much negative footage.

[shadows]

When you are stopped by an officer, the proper response is "I have a firearm in the car, and a license to carry it."

He will then ask you where it is.  It may be on your person or in the glove compartment.  He will ask for proper documentation, issue any citation necessary, run any serials, and return the unloaded weapon to you before you part ways.  

You would be very surprised at how often this scenario occurs every day.  It's not scary for you or for the officer.  When an officer verifies that you have a CC, he knows immediately that you have gone through a 60-90 day criminal background check conducted by the OSBI.  Your fingerprints have been scanned and checked against federal databases, and you are without felony or prior convictions for violence.  

You have just become the safest guy he's going to meet all day!

...

There is no question that without a permit you can carry an unloaded gun in the glove department or a paper sack. But the statue being considered is to carry a gun in the open.  Remember in the archives where the citizen in reaching for the gate keys to open the gate for the officer was fatally shot by the officer because he says he saw a flash of light.

Under the pending statue if one is using the open carry the placing ones hands on the gun is an open case for justified homicide by the officer. 

[Conan71]

When you are stopped by an officer, the proper response is "I have a firearm in the car, and a license to carry it."

He will then ask you where it is.  It may be on your person or in the glove compartment.  If it is in the glove compartment or on your person, there should never be a shell in the chamber, and the safety should be engaged (if you have one).  A chambered weapon constitutes intent.  If you are fearful that you cannot engage an unchambered firearm fast enough, then you have no business carrying a one.  From pull to slide to safety, it takes me .6 of a second.

The officer will ask that you exit the vehicle.  He will ask if your weapon is loaded.  You response is yes.  He will ask if it is chambered.  Your response should be no.  He will remove the weapon from your person or your car and secure it.

He will ask for proper documentation, issue any citation necessary, run any serials, and return the unloaded weapon to you before you part ways.  

You would be very surprised at how often this scenario occurs every day.  It's not scary for you or for the officer.  When an officer verifies that you have a CC, he knows immediately that you have gone through a 60-90 day criminal background check conducted by the OSBI.  Your fingerprints have been scanned and checked against federal databases, and you are without felony or prior convictions for violence.  

You have just become the safest guy he's going to meet all day!

The law doesn't seem to make a distinction between whether or not the magazine is loaded or there is a shell in the chamber.  Consider that if you are carrying a loaded revolver and the wheel is fully engaged, it's chambered.  I was instructed by my instructor (one of the original authors of the Oklahoma CCL law) that a single action semi-auto should be carried, chambered, cocked & locked for quicker reaction and to avoid the possibility of a slide jamb.  Double action should be hammer down, one in the chamber, and safety engaged, if so equipped.

TITLE 21 § 1289.13. Transporting a loaded firearm
TRANSPORTING A LOADED FIREARM

Except as otherwise provided by the provisions of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act or another provision of law, it shall be unlawful to transport a loaded pistol, rifle or shotgun in a land borne motor vehicle over a public highway or roadway. However, a rifle or shotgun may be transported clip or magazine loaded and not chamber loaded when transported in an exterior locked compartment of the vehicle or trunk of the vehicle or in the interior compartment of the vehicle notwithstanding the provisions of Section 1289.7 of this title when the person is in possession of a valid handgun license pursuant to the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act.

Any person who is the operator of a vehicle or is a passenger in any vehicle wherein another person who is licensed pursuant to the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act to carry a concealed handgun and is carrying a concealed handgun or has concealed a handgun or rifle or shotgun in such vehicle shall not be deemed in violation of the provisions of this section provided the licensee is in or near the vehicle.

[Gaspar]

The law doesn't seem to make a distinction between whether or not the magazine is loaded or there is a shell in the chamber.  Consider that if you are carrying a loaded revolver and the wheel is fully engaged, it's chambered.  I was instructed by my instructor (one of the original authors of the Oklahoma CCL law) that a single action semi-auto should be carried, chambered, cocked & locked for quicker reaction and to avoid the possibility of a slide jamb.  Double action should be hammer down, one in the chamber, and safety engaged, if so equipped.

Not according to my instructor.  If you are law enforcement you keep your primary weapon chambered. Any concealed weapon should not be.  If an officer stops you and you are carrying a concealed weapon with a chambered round, that can be considered intent. 

I'll have to look it up to see if that is actually law or just CYA advice. 

[Red Arrow]

Not according to my instructor.  If you are law enforcement you keep your primary weapon chambered. Any concealed weapon should not be.  If an officer stops you and you are carrying a concealed weapon with a chambered round, that can be considered intent. 

I'll have to look it up to see if that is actually law or just CYA advice. 

Or if we have a confusion factor and different instructors are teaching different interpretations.

[custosnox]

Not according to my instructor.  If you are law enforcement you keep your primary weapon chambered. Any concealed weapon should not be.  If an officer stops you and you are carrying a concealed weapon with a chambered round, that can be considered intent. 

I'll have to look it up to see if that is actually law or just CYA advice. 

I carry mine with a round chambered.  I have never had an officer even ask if it was chambered.  I have been through the firearms act several times and have found no reference to having a round chambered being considered intent.  In fact, the only thing I have found regarding having a round chambered is when your transporting a firearm, not carrying it as a concealed weapon, in which case it must have no ammo loaded or chambered. So far I have only had one take it from me, and that was my first contact and I told him before I had my license ready for him, and he just held onto it long enough for me to verify that.  Any other times I have the license ready before hand and inform him I have the weapon as I hand him the license, and at most they ask me where I have it.  Also the law states that having a license means the officer is not allowed to inspect the weapon. 

[Gaspar]

Checked with my buddy at TPD, ant Conan is indeed correct. You can carry chambered.  Intent only comes into play if you are otherwise breaking the law (drunk, combative, just robbed a liquer store).  He says he stops quite a few folks who also think a chambered weapon is not allowed, but there is nothing in the law restricting it.

I still see no reason to chamber mine.  Oklahoma Self Defence apparently teaches an extra measure of caution.

[custosnox]

Checked with my buddy at TPD, ant Conan is indeed correct. You can carry chambered.  Intent only comes into play if you are otherwise breaking the law (drunk, combative, just robbed a liquer store).  He says he stops quite a few folks who also think a chambered weapon is not allowed, but there is nothing in the law restricting it.

I still see no reason to chamber mine.  Oklahoma Self Defence apparently teaches an extra measure of caution.

sometimes split seconds matter.  Same reason cops make sure they have holsters that they are able to unholster their weapon as quickly as possible.

[Conan71]

Checked with my buddy at TPD, ant Conan is indeed correct. You can carry chambered.  Intent only comes into play if you are otherwise breaking the law (drunk, combative, just robbed a liquer store).  He says he stops quite a few folks who also think a chambered weapon is not allowed, but there is nothing in the law restricting it.

I still see no reason to chamber mine.  Oklahoma Self Defence apparently teaches an extra measure of caution.

Chambered in your vehicle or on your person would be illegal if you do not have an SDA license or otherwise are not supposed to be in possession of a firearm.

The problem is, as my instructor described it, is that officers interpret the law different.  Especially in smaller municipalities.  It's interesting the confusion even amongst people licensed to carry or their instructors.  I suspect one issue is how legalize is written, no wonder we are confused:

"Except as otherwise provided by the provisions of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act or another provision of law, it shall be unlawful to transport a loaded pistol, rifle or shotgun in a land borne motor vehicle over a public highway or roadway. However, a rifle or shotgun may be transported clip or magazine loaded and not chamber loaded when transported in an exterior locked compartment of the vehicle or trunk of the vehicle or in the interior compartment of the vehicle notwithstanding the provisions of Section 1289.7 of this title when the person is in possession of a valid handgun license pursuant to the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act."

Personally, I think a wheel gun is probably the safest to carry, but can be more difficult to conceal unless you like to wear loose clothing or a jacket all the time.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Not according to my instructor.  If you are law enforcement you keep your primary weapon chambered. Any concealed weapon should not be.  If an officer stops you and you are carrying a concealed weapon with a chambered round, that can be considered intent.  

I'll have to look it up to see if that is actually law or just CYA advice.  

My lawyer/instructor said to chamber it.  Too much wasted time pulling the slide.  I want that extra 6 tenths if I am in that situation.