Tulsans themselves have to believe in Tulsa first.

[Johnboy976]

It was in my senior year of high school (at Holland Hall) when we, as students, were required to pursue internships with professions that we thought we would later pursue, following college. My friends were primarily actors and artists, so I was attending performances and exhibitions, as well as getting involved in the Tulsa nightlife, left and right. Let's just say that I was busy that year. There really was a lot to do.

I think that because of the business mindset of most Tulsans, there is an avoidance to getting involved with what else the city has to offer. For that reason, if we can effectively sell the part of Tulsa that pursues the arts (both locally and nationally), we might get fewer complaints from locals, and more visits from outsiders.

[dinkleman23]

quote:


I get that a lot from people. So the question becomes. What can Tulsa do to speed up the process?

You are trying to start a fire without any wood.

What happens in the cities you would like to emulate is this. First and foremost, downtown in these cities is loaded with corporate jobs and a whole slew of corporate headquarters (Dallas has what ... something like 45 Fortune 500 headquarters). Anyway, these corporations are loaded with jobs that pay 100-200K$ and up. These are the people that drive BMW's and can afford 500K$ townhomes.

Because of brutal commutes, these yuppies decide to live close to town or in-town and that kind of development takes off. Restaurants and everything else comes in short order. The key is corporate jobs – that is what makes places like Dallas, Denver and the like hum. The people they employ have money to spend and drive development.

Tulsa is a net loser of those jobs – not a net gainer.

[TheArtist]

Aaactually,  When you look at those rankings of best cities for job growth, for starting your career or business, etc.  You will find that 8 out of 10 of them are in big college towns.

---- The jobs are moving where the educated people are. ----

Whether large college town or major city, those two places have something in common, an active, vibrant, interesting lifestyle with lots of things to do, the arts, etc.  Big cities can produce that but large universities with lots of students in a smaller city can produce those same things.  Plus universities themselves can create jobs, spin off companies from research and patents, etc.

Growing our colleges is one thing we can definitely do that will improve Tulsa.

One reason IMO Tulsa faltered was because it relied on only a few industries like Oil for its prosperity.  For the longest time Tulsa was the largest city in the US without a publicly funded graduate university and TU was always a very small university.

Imagine if during the last 30 years or so OSU Tulsa had catered to 20 or 30 thousand or more students. I guarantee you Downtown, Brady Arts district, Blue dome, etc. would be very VERY different animals right now.

It was a terrible mistake to have spent the last 20 years continually growing the Stillwater campus and neglecting Tulsa.  "Creative Class" Yuppy, type individuals are not going to want to live in Stillwater, way too small town, not enough job opportunities and not the type of lifestlye to want to live there into your late 20s and early 30s while persuing high level graduate degrees.  Many I know that would like to live in Tulsa couldn't because they werent able to further their educations here. If you are older and have a career, perhaps a house or a family, how can you just pick up like a kid out of high school and go to Stillwater?  But there are plenty of other cities with large univerities those people can go to.  Tulsa was not a choice, Stillwater was not a choice. And its friggin killed us for years.

The right mix would have been the City of Tulsa with a large University.

Growing our colleges is definitely one thing that the city can do to make a change.

All the belief in the world couldn't make it so that you could go to college here if there weren't any colleges offering what you needed. I still know people who cant move here. And young people that have to leave.  And we keep wondering why we arent getting the high tech jobs and companies and are getting more call center jobs instead? All of that impacts the kinds of people and businesses that are here, and the kind of lifestyle that results.

[perspicuity85]

quote:Originally posted by dinkleman23


Go to the upscale downtown areas or near town areas of Dallas, Denver, Miami, Houston, Atlanta, Austin etc and be an observer. Look at the people ... how they dress, what they drive, where they eat and you will figure it out pretty darn quick. People want flash, glitz and excitement. They could care less about the history of the Blue Dome. It is the reason that young people are deserting Oklahoma in droves for these places.

It is no secrect w

I've been to many of those places and then some.  The point is, almost every trendy US city has undergone some sort of reorganizing process that preceded the glitz and excitement you speak of.  20 years ago suburban St. Louis residents would have dropped dead before hanging out in their downtown.  But now there is a new energy in downtown St. Louis that is a combination of private enterprise and public investment.  Beyond that, downtown St. Louis is marketed very effectively to the entire St. Louis metro area as well as other day-trip target markets.

Tulsa's biggest problem in my opinion is its marketing approach (or lack thereof).  The Blue Dome is not or was never intended to be marketed as a history site.  You're exactly right, no average nightlife or urban lifestyle customer gives a damn about the history of the Blue Dome.  The history behind the Blue Dome area only serves to provide a sense of unique community identity.  "The Blue Dome" is just a Tulsa-specific brand name for a product, that product being nightlife and an overall urban lifestyle.  Without names like Blue Dome, we resort to generic brand names such as "out by the mall" or "just off the interstate."

[swake]

quote:Originally posted by dinkleman23

quote:


I get that a lot from people. So the question becomes. What can Tulsa do to speed up the process?

You are trying to start a fire without any wood.

What happens in the cities you would like to emulate is this. First and foremost, downtown in these cities is loaded with corporate jobs and a whole slew of corporate headquarters (Dallas has what ... something like 45 Fortune 500 headquarters). Anyway, these corporations are loaded with jobs that pay 100-200K$ and up. These are the people that drive BMW's and can afford 500K$ townhomes.

Because of brutal commutes, these yuppies decide to live close to town or in-town and that kind of development takes off. Restaurants and everything else comes in short order. The key is corporate jobs – that is what makes places like Dallas, Denver and the like hum. The people they employ have money to spend and drive development.

Tulsa is a net loser of those jobs – not a net gainer.

Mods, seriously.

This is Davaz again, it's not going to go well, it never does. Can we be rid of him now?

[Admin]

BLAH BLAH BLAH

[Admin]

quote:Originally posted by swake


Mods, seriously.

This is Davaz again, it's not going to go well, it never does. Can we be rid of him now?

Swake gets the gold star.

[SXSW]

I think it depends a lot on where you live in Tulsa.  I know people who moved here from out of state and made the unfortunate decision (mainly based on cost) to get a place in southeast Tulsa or Broken Arrow.  Because of that they have more of a negative view of the city.  However I also know people who moved here and rent or own houses around Brookside and Cherry Street and they absolutely love it.  They like the character of their neighborhoods, the trees, the large amount of younger people, and easy access to shops/restaurants/nightlife.

Tulsa is lucky to have such a great Midtown with Brookside, Cherry Street, Utica Square, and RiverParks.  Those that live in this area, even though it can be expensive, seem to enjoy living here a lot more.  Now I just wish downtown would revitalize itself quicker but I think one of the main deterrents is that midtown is so strong.  I still am baffled why uptown just south of downtown and along the river isn't seeing more development, seems like the perfect place and somewhere I would definitely want to live...

[Conan71]

I really do find it ironic that our chamber brought in someone from the west coast to tell us how to market ourselves.  I did say I found it ironic, not surprising, since the MTCC and the city government apparently don't believe there is any talent in Tulsa when it comes to consulting services and key positions.

Citizen's images of their cities depend on whether or not their glass is half-empty or half-full.  

There are plenty of people who live in Dallas, Houston, LA, NYC, Atlanta, Chicago, Miami, etc. who can't see beyond the crime, pollution, congestion, being overrun with illegal aliens, urban sprawl, etc. to appreciate the glitz, activities, mountains, beaches, etc.

I really don't mind Tulsa.  Why does it need to be a Dallas or an LA?  I appreciate short commutes from anywhere in the city, relatively low crime, cleaner air than many other cities, convenient recreational lakes, our history, etc.  I really don't care to see Tulsa become a 1.5mm or 2mm pop. monolith.  If you want a large city, there are plenty to choose from.  IOW- I don't see the need to make Tulsa into something it isn't.

[pmcalk]

I was at a comprehensive plan meeting last night, where someone spoke of Tulsa's earlier flag, and the need to readopt its motto:  Unlimited Opportunity.  I think that truly speaks to Tulsa's history, and to her future.  From the Native Americans who came here for a new home, to the immigrants who looked to opportunities to strike it rich, Tulsa has always provided opportunity.  We may not have everything, but right now we do have the opportunity to become great.  What we do with it is up to us.

[S.]

I am more of this mind, myself.  I'm not moving to Tulsa because I want it to be like NYC or Seattle or Boston or LA.  I'm moving to Tulsa because it's Tulsa.  

I do know what everyone is referring to about Tulsans needing to stop whining about Tulsa, though.  It's really aggravating.  Everyone from smaller cities/towns/communities seem to do it (particularly young people).  It's because it's been drilled into people's minds by television shows, books, radio, media of all types, that small towns and communities are riddled with inbred, racist morons.  Which is, of course, a completely elitist and wholly ignorant assumption.  And frankly, it's not the people of Tulsa's (and other communities) job to convince them otherwise, or educate them.  Always ironic to me that people are content to embody the ignorance they assign others.

It will be a glorious day when I no longer hear kids (or adults) from smaller cities/towns/communities apologize for where they're from, but instead be proud of it and stick up for everything that it is.  

Every place on earth has its problems.  Some of the most racist, elitist, moronic people I've ever met have been the citizens of major U.S. cities (and northern cities were the worst, fwiw).  I can tell you, I've gotten into several "discussions" when they bring up racism and the like, and I point out to them all the ways their city is equally (if not more) racist than say, Tulsa.  Because those cities have never been highlighted for those things in a well known history book or written about in the New York Times, doesn't mean it isn't there.  And large and in charge, for that matter: enforced, supported, and maintained by very well-educated people of means.  At least in Tulsa everyone knows what's happened, and isn't pretending otherwise.  Ignorant people are everywhere.  Cities aren't exempt.  

Tulsa should continue to make up its own mind about what the city is and will become. When it looks at what the city has to offer, it should look at what the -area- has to offer, too.  It's not all about downtown or downtown culture.    

In Phoenix I remember chuckling about all the people that would move there and say it had no culture.  Phoenix is absolutely loaded with culture.  Really unique and interesting culture.  It just wasn't downtown culture, or white, european culture.  You want that, go where it is.  Don't come looking for it/demanding it where it isn't.  The same people were always trying to grow grass yards and ivy there, too.  D-E-S-E-R-T mean anything to them?  120 degree summers anyone? Um, no.  They wanted that grass and that downtown.  They were okay with local mexican and indian people mowing their lawns out in front of their pseudo adobe homes, but seemingly unwilling to recognize them as the long-standing local residents/natives there.  The ones who built the first adobe homes and inhabited the area.  The ones with all the amazing, vibrant local culture.

It's a good thing the city wants to review its image (I don't know if this can ever be bad, really).  But not good if it thinks it needs to determine what that image is by looking at other cities that are absolutely nothing like it, or by trying to make Tulsa appear to be something it isn't.  

BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH is right....lol...[}:)]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

I really do find it ironic that our chamber brought in someone from the west coast to tell us how to market ourselves.  I did say I found it ironic, not surprising, since the MTCC and the city government apparently don't believe there is any talent in Tulsa when it comes to consulting services and key positions.

Citizen's images of their cities depend on whether or not their glass is half-empty or half-full.  

There are plenty of people who live in Dallas, Houston, LA, NYC, Atlanta, Chicago, Miami, etc. who can't see beyond the crime, pollution, congestion, being overrun with illegal aliens, urban sprawl, etc. to appreciate the glitz, activities, mountains, beaches, etc.

I really don't mind Tulsa.  Why does it need to be a Dallas or an LA?  I appreciate short commutes from anywhere in the city, relatively low crime, cleaner air than many other cities, convenient recreational lakes, our history, etc.  I really don't care to see Tulsa become a 1.5mm or 2mm pop. monolith.  If you want a large city, there are plenty to choose from.  IOW- I don't see the need to make Tulsa into something it isn't.

[marc]

quote:Originally posted by S.

I am more of this mind, myself.  I'm not moving to Tulsa because I want it to be like NYC or Seattle or Boston or LA.  I'm moving to Tulsa because it's Tulsa.  

I do know what everyone is referring to about Tulsans needing to stop whining about Tulsa, though.  It's really aggravating.  Everyone from smaller cities/towns/communities seem to do it (particularly young people).  It's because it's been drilled into people's minds by television shows, books, radio, media of all types, that small towns and communities are riddled with inbred, racist morons.  Which is, of course, a completely elitist and wholly ignorant assumption.  And frankly, it's not the people of Tulsa's (and other communities) job to convince them otherwise, or educate them.  Always ironic to me that people are content to embody the ignorance they assign others.

It will be a glorious day when I no longer hear kids (or adults) from smaller cities/towns/communities apologize for where they're from, but instead be proud of it and stick up for everything that it is.  

Every place on earth has its problems.  Some of the most racist, elitist, moronic people I've ever met have been the citizens of major U.S. cities (and northern cities were the worst, fwiw).  I can tell you, I've gotten into several "discussions" when they bring up racism and the like, and I point out to them all the ways their city is equally (if not more) racist than say, Tulsa.  Because those cities have never been highlighted for those things in a well known history book or written about in the New York Times, doesn't mean it isn't there.  And large and in charge, for that matter: enforced, supported, and maintained by very well-educated people of means.  At least in Tulsa everyone knows what's happened, and isn't pretending otherwise.  Ignorant people are everywhere.  Cities aren't exempt.  

Tulsa should continue to make up its own mind about what the city is and will become. When it looks at what the city has to offer, it should look at what the -area- has to offer, too.  It's not all about downtown or downtown culture.    

In Phoenix I remember chuckling about all the people that would move there and say it had no culture.  Phoenix is absolutely loaded with culture.  Really unique and interesting culture.  It just wasn't downtown culture, or white, european culture.  You want that, go where it is.  Don't come looking for it/demanding it where it isn't.  The same people were always trying to grow grass yards and ivy there, too.  D-E-S-E-R-T mean anything to them?  120 degree summers anyone? Um, no.  They wanted that grass and that downtown.  They were okay with local mexican and indian people mowing their lawns out in front of their pseudo adobe homes, but seemingly unwilling to recognize them as the long-standing local residents/natives there.  The ones who built the first adobe homes and inhabited the area.  The ones with all the amazing, vibrant local culture.

It's a good thing the city wants to review its image (I don't know if this can ever be bad, really).  But not good if it thinks it needs to determine what that image is by looking at other cities that are absolutely nothing like it, or by trying to make Tulsa appear to be something it isn't.  

BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH is right....lol...[}:)]

Well said, S. The whining is really aggravating, although as you point out it is not unique to Tulsa. And you are right on the mark about media influence.

Watching network and especially cable news coverage often gives one the impression that there are only two cities in the USA, New York and Los Angeles. The media seems to view the other 90-plus percent of the nation as "flyover" country.

[USRufnex]

quote:Originally posted by perspicuity85

USRufnex, Tulsa will have a better chance of landing a MLS team when the entire metro area has a better concentric city focus, and downtown and midtown are viewed as high-equity brand names for real estate.  Tulsa MSA residents have to believe in Tulsa before most outsiders will.

See, I really don't believe that requiring the entire metro area to focus on downtown and/or  midtown is necessary or even warranted.

I think Tulsa makes mistakes when focusing on Madison Ave/Hollywood-style marketing campaigns or what Vancouverites Bing Thom and Alan Hart think is wrong with downtown Tulsa (Hart:  "So right now it's really isolated and it was isolated by the automobile about 40 years ago."--- Thom:  "The Channels is the broach, Tulsa needs sparkle."  "The old is getting young, and the young is getting old.")  Especially when these experts have only experienced Tulsa for a few weeks at the most.

There are places you visit and places you live.  Tulsa has always been the latter.

I met a western Canadian who lives in Tulsa and likes it here.  Dare I say, he's lived here far longer than Hart or Thom could ever stomach living in T-town.  I asked him what he thought of Vancouver.

"I'd never live there.  It's far too crowded."

When I asked him about downtown Tulsa and the future of Tulsa in general, he said this:

"I think Tulsa is trying to decide whether it wants to be Calgary or Edmonton... or Saskatoon."

I responded, "Well, I've never really heard of Saskatoon."

"Exactly," he said.

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