Is the time right for buying?

[shadows]

Is the time right for buying?

An ill wind blows across the purchase of the new city hall as the declining population is leaving the city to the burbs and taking with them the once tax structure that gave Tulsa a high ratting.  The lenders on revenue bond issues are taking a second look at sales taxes used as revenue to pay for such bonds.  The city real-estate venture seems to be hanging in limbo as ratings seem to fall.  On top of this the river issue is being pushed by promoters, not those who lend money.  Public subscription of donated money carry stipulations that do not interest the lenders.

We can buy, buy, build, build, but in the background are those who finance the ventures and the instability of all markets seem to have an effect on all city claims for the taxpayers money.  Unused vacant city property has little used as a tax producing entity.  

The city councilors must decide if they should see if there is a pig in the poke before handing over the keys to the city coffers.

[Townsend]

If anyone wants to compete and re-write this into an easily followed statement, please do.

I might be a jerk for that but c'mooooooooooon man, seriously.  Write like you want people to understand your side.

Dadgummit

[cannon_fodder]

As always, I shall do my best.  The following statement is NOT MINE nor do I represent that the erroneous facts presented are in any way correct:

Is the time right to buy the new city hall?

Things are not going well in Tulsa's attempt to buy the new City Hall building because Tulsa's population is declining and Tulsa's tax revenues are falling. Lenders are concerned that the city may not be able to support more bonds with the current tax structure, which is causing the city purchase of this commercial property to stall.  Furthermore, people who want to see river progress are encouraging river progress - it is not money lenders who are encouraging river progress but people who want river progress.   Even the lure of private money into the river project is not convincing lenders, who haven't been asked yet, to loan money because it has nothing to do with City Hall nor the donation of private money for the river venture.

Borrowing money for these purchases relies on outside sources of revenue to be repaid by taxpayers, which is unstable.  The vacant property the city is proposal as financing has little value to lenders or as a tax producing entity.

[insert random 1920's saying]

[bokworker]

His syntax is a bit odd at times but I believe in this comment Shadows is making the observation that the credit markets have certainly tightened and that the city may in fact have to pay a liitle bit more than expected to get the revenus bonds issued to support the move. I suppose this would negatively impact some of the profitability numbers that have been used to this point in making the city's case. If so, this might not be the best time to make the move.

Am I close Shadows?

[RecycleMichael]

quote:Originally posted by shadows

Is the time right for buying?

An ill wind blows across the purchase of the new city hall as the declining population is leaving the city to the burbs and taking with them the once tax structure that gave Tulsa a high ratting.  The lenders on revenue bond issues are taking a second look at sales taxes used as revenue to pay for such bonds.  The city real-estate venture seems to be hanging in limbo as ratings seem to fall.  On top of this the river issue is being pushed by promoters, not those who lend money.  Public subscription of donated money carry stipulations that do not interest the lenders.

We can buy, buy, build, build, but in the background are those who finance the ventures and the instability of all markets seem to have an effect on all city claims for the taxpayers money.  Unused vacant city property has little used as a tax producing entity.  

The city councilors must decide if they should see if there is a pig in the poke before handing over the keys to the city coffers.

I will try to translate. I took a couple semesters of gibberish when I was in college.

When the wind blows, people get ill from moving to the suburbs and gettin high with rats.

Barry Bonds took a second look, then lent his promoter some money. The interest on the money came from donating subscriptions.

We said Bye Bye, but little piggies went to market. If you poke them with a key, they cough.

[bokworker]

RM, it all makes sense now... thanks.

[Townsend]

quote:Originally posted by recyclemichael

quote:Originally posted by shadows

Is the time right for buying?

An ill wind blows across the purchase of the new city hall as the declining population is leaving the city to the burbs and taking with them the once tax structure that gave Tulsa a high ratting.  The lenders on revenue bond issues are taking a second look at sales taxes used as revenue to pay for such bonds.  The city real-estate venture seems to be hanging in limbo as ratings seem to fall.  On top of this the river issue is being pushed by promoters, not those who lend money.  Public subscription of donated money carry stipulations that do not interest the lenders.

We can buy, buy, build, build, but in the background are those who finance the ventures and the instability of all markets seem to have an effect on all city claims for the taxpayers money.  Unused vacant city property has little used as a tax producing entity.  

The city councilors must decide if they should see if there is a pig in the poke before handing over the keys to the city coffers.

I will try to translate. I took a couple semesters of gibberish when I was in college.

When the wind blows, people get ill from moving to the suburbs and gettin high with rats.

Barry Bonds took a second look, then lent his promoter some money. The interest on the money came from donating subscriptions.

We said Bye Bye, but little piggies went to market. If you poke them with a key, they cough.

Oh for Pete's sake, it's so clear now.  The key poking.

Thanks RM

[shadows]

Quoted>
I will try to translate. I took a couple semesters of gibberish when I was in college.
=========================================================
It is uforuant that after going to college someone didn't point out where the classes are held.

[cannon_fodder]

Ironic comment of the week award.

[Conan71]

Okay, quit picking on shadows, or MichaelC will come in and beat everyone up...

[cannon_fodder]

But why would people point out where the classes are AFTER you went to college?  Wouldn't it be better to know before, or even WHILE going to college.  It would be unforuant [/i]sic[/i] if you spent 4 years at college and THEN someone told you where the classes are held.  I'd be so pissed.

Seriously Shadows, like I said in the other post... less effort in trying to prove to yourself how cryptic and clever you can be, more effort in making a point that others can understand.  Your current approach is not working.

[shadows]

When using the off sided syntax instead of posting demanding pros or cons, which is a form of thought control, shadows wants to leave open the discussion in order for the reader to insert his own evaluation of thought. Thus much is written the passive mode.

I guess we are going to buy the new glass building for a city hall through another sweetheart deal.  

My questions are:

Is the smoke alarm going off?

If the 76 million dollars in revenue bonds are issued by one city authority to be paid off by renting to another governing body, can it be assumed as a revenue producing entity?

Where is the millions in interest included?  Is it hidden under "debt service"?

BOK is to be the master renter that will hire a real-estate agency to rent out the unused space, is that not more $$$$$$$$$?

If the BOK floats the revenue bonds they will collect millions of dollars in interest.  Like the airlines deal will not the citizens who did not vote to go into debt for another folly be responsible for any default?

The TW reported that there was a 1007 space parking garage in the deal with 90 % included in the lease of the space reserved for renters,  The 100 parking spaces reserved by the city is to produce revenue of 6.7  million dollars over the next  ten years.  When one figures how much the parking  fee will be do not they feel that those who project income should be replaced with a new $1.00 calculator ?

Is this all for the children also?

[tim huntzinger]

Absolutely NOT the right time for buying.  The quality of many of the new-builds in the 'burbs is suspect and only going to get worse.  Existing homes are overpriced and going to get more burdensome as property taxes increase.  I would advise prospective buyers to hold their far and rent until the dust clears.

And I have a home on the market.

[Double A]

The uncertainty in the bond markets should be a cause for concern. I'll probably be written off as an alarmist and a naysayer greaser by the cheerleader socs, just like when I was warning about the effect of sub-prime lenders. Given the almost six to nine month lag our economy seems to take behind national trends we are now just starting to begin to feel the effects in Tulsa, with foreclosures increasing.

[cannon_fodder]

And what of the uncertainty in the bond market is alarming to you?

Interest rates were cut, thus there has been a sell off of bonds to get into the stock market.  It is the inevitable inverse relationship between the two.  Otherwise, the only bonds that are in doubt are of failing companies.  This is nothing new either.  When a company has its rating slashed its bonds trade at a discount.

All standard operating procedures from what I see.  I actually unloaded some bonds that were upgraded and purchased bonds from Nationwide.  Figuring they will at worst enter into chapter 11 and at best get the governmental assurance you are clamoring for (read quick money for me!).  More than likely they will limp along for a while and slowly improve their rating.  I imagine when the panic fades their rating will be reinstated and I will not be forced to hold this until maturity.  
- - -

As far as buying a home in the Tulsa market, there is no indication that the market will tank here since we saw no market flurry here.  There will be an increase in trouble as certainly some people bought homes they could not afford on temporary credit (ARMs and other short term good deals).  But by and large everyone, including FORBES and the WSJ, expect the Tulsa real estate market to be among the best in the nation (keeping in mind that is simply because we are supposed to stay on our even keel while everyone else tanks).

Feel confident in buying Tim's house.
[]