Amtrak

[okiebybirth]

quote:Originally posted by Transport_Oklahoma

Hey thanks for the INCOG intercity rail update!

This effort has momentum now.  Councilman Westcott is on a roll.

I wonder how much time ODOT should be given to respond to Tulsa's request?

Maybe they already have agreed to it.  I don't know.

The study shouldn't be controversial.  

But if ODOT delays, I have an idea why.  

It is time for negotiation of the state's annual contract with Amtrak.  They are short about a million dollars to cover the cost.  So they may feel uncomfortable asking for a study to increase service when they are scrambling to fund the existing one.

But, IMO, one of the key reasons they have had difficulty getting the program funded properly is its lack of geographic scope.

Thank you for all your hard work Matt.

[Transport_Oklahoma]

Meeting on Tulsa Amtrak service

Thursday, October 5th, 7:00 p.m.
Conference Room
Tulsa Central Library - Fifth & Denver

Getting Tulsa Online for the Future

Update on status of proposal
Brainstorming on citizen participation and advocacy

Oklahoma Passenger Rail Association

[Johnboy976]

Finally!!!!

http://www.kotv.com/news/local/story/?id=116025

[snopes]

I love mass transit, and trains are the only way to go. Seriously, it's so much better than driving. When I lived in Germany (early 80s) I didn't have a car and didn't miss it - in fact I hated driving for a long time after returning to the states.

[TheTed]

Bumping this thread to see if anybody's heard anything about Amtrak in Tulsa.

I've done some research and it seems the Tulsa-OKC line isn't very feasible.

quote:
The second-hand word I've heard is that the line from OKC to Tulsa (ex-Frisco, I think, now owned by the state of Oklahoma) is unsuitable for anything over thirty miles and hour. The interstate between the two cities is a very heavily used turnpike, opened in 1953 and probably in need of a major upgrade (although I've never picked up from the local media that that is in the near-term works). The logical thing would be to include new rail construction in any rebuilding of that. In the mean time, few people would choose a three to four hour train over 75 mph on the Turner Turnpike.
http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?4,1295750

It also looks like the Springfield, MO to St. Louis line isn't very feasible. Because of the terrain through the ozarks the trip would take six hours. Ridership also wouldn't be very high.
http://www.modot.org/othertransportation/rail/documents/ATK-07-060Springfield-SWMissouri.pdf

The track from Tulsa to Springfield is being upgraded but a Springfield-Tulsa line wouldn't be of much value if it wasn't part of an OKC-St. Louis line.

So from that information it doesn't look too likely that Tulsa would get an Amtrak train. But there has been a study commissioned to explore connecting OKC to Newton, KS (near Wichita), where you could take the train to Kansas City (then on to St. Louis, Chicago, or many other places). That would be a vast improvement for train travel in Oklahoma.
http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=Amtrak/am2Copy/News_Release_Page&c=am2Copy&cid=1178294134255
http://www.northflyer.org/resources/NFA-KDOT-Minutes-08-03-14.pdf

Air travel is gonna be increasing significantly in price. It's not sustainable as it's priced now. Car travel is already increasing significantly in price. Greyhound is worthless.

Megabus serves Kansas City, Memphis and St. Louis. Maybe it'll come here soon. A new megabus type service started between Boston and NYC. Boltbus has free onboard wifi. Maybe it'll come here someday.
http://www.boston.com/business/ticker/2008/04/new_york_or_bus.html

Regardless we need some type of travel option other than air and driving.

[perspicuity85]

quote:Originally posted by TheTed

Bumping this thread to see if anybody's heard anything about Amtrak in Tulsa.

I've done some research and it seems the Tulsa-OKC line isn't very feasible.

The second-hand word I've heard is that the line from OKC to Tulsa (ex-Frisco, I think, now owned by the state of Oklahoma) is unsuitable for anything over thirty miles and hour. The interstate between the two cities is a very heavily used turnpike, opened in 1953 and probably in need of a major upgrade (although I've never picked up from the local media that that is in the near-term works). The logical thing would be to include new rail construction in any rebuilding of that. In the mean time, few people would choose a three to four hour train over 75 mph on the Turner Turnpike.
http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?4,1295750

What is involved in upgrading the track from OKC to Tulsa?  Would upping the capacity from 30 m.p.h. to 70 m.p.h. require completely new track?  Do you happen to know how the cost of upgrading track compares to highway maintenence costs?

[TheTed]

I know nothing other than what I've read. I don't want to let this issue die. Gas prices aren't going down.

The most recent article I could find is from 1/07, but it sounds like we're not even gonna spend the money to study extending the Heartland Flyer from OKC to Tulsa.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=070125_Ne_A10_BAlaw1761

The OKC-Newton KS link sounds like the most promising plan to strengthen our state's presence on the Amtrak map.

Tulsans could drive to OKC or to a proposed station in Perry and catch the train to Wichita, Topeka, Lawrence, Kansas City or any number of other destinations.

But even that sounds like it'd be tough to pull off. Oklahoma would have to devote more money to Amtrak. And Kansas has to remove a constitutional restriction on using state money to supplement Amtrak.

[perspicuity85]

quote:Originally posted by TheTed

I know nothing other than what I've read. I don't want to let this issue die. Gas prices aren't going down.

The most recent article I could find is from 1/07, but it sounds like we're not even gonna spend the money to study extending the Heartland Flyer from OKC to Tulsa.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=070125_Ne_A10_BAlaw1761

The OKC-Newton KS link sounds like the most promising plan to strengthen our state's presence on the Amtrak map.

Tulsans could drive to OKC or to a proposed station in Perry and catch the train to Wichita, Topeka, Lawrence, Kansas City or any number of other destinations.

But even that sounds like it'd be tough to pull off. Oklahoma would have to devote more money to Amtrak. And Kansas has to remove a constitutional restriction on using state money to supplement Amtrak.

The turnpike authorities in OK and KS would likely be against Amtrak expansion on their routes.  I-35 is a freeway in OK, but becomes a toll road in KS.  I-44 is a toll road in OK.  If the turnpike authorities in OK and KS have a potential to generate revenue from rail expansion, then maybe they will help give this some attention.  We need to figure out how much it costs to expand the Heartland Flyer, and compare the cost to roadway improvements.  If the H. Flyer reduced roadway traffic between OKC and Tulsa by 15% or so, that may be significant enough to warrant some cost decreases in road construction.  However, Amtrak doesn't reduce the amount of semi trucks on the road, which really wear out the roads the most.  Semis also provide the most revenue per unit to the turnpike authority.  Maybe if the whole rail system was spruced up, there could be implications for increased freight trains as well.  Rising gas prices have already caused freigt train usage to increase quite a bit, according to a logistics seminar I watched.  It seems like there are a lot of questions here that aren't being asked by the right people.

[buzz words]

So, would the Broken Arrow to Tulsa Train have anything to do with benefiting AmTrak?

[tshane250]

quote: If the turnpike authorities in OK and KS have a potential to generate revenue from rail expansion, then maybe they will help give this some attention.

Why can't OTA be in control of rail.  They could build a whole new line (or pair of lnes) between OKC and Missouri in the rights-of-way of the Turner and Will Rogers Turnpikes and generate revenue from its use.  One of the lines between OKC and Tulsa could be designed for high speed rail.  Allowing OTA to have control also means that this might actually get done in our lifetimes.