Ban plastic shopping bags?

[Gaspar]

quote:Originally posted by joiei

quote:Originally posted by Gaspar

I would analyze it from a use standpoint.  The amount of material in a plastic shopping bag is minimal. A few grams of polyethylene resin yields hundreds of individual bags.

Some are made of polylactic acid that breaks down to nothing in a landfill, and once again, one gram yields hundreds of bags.  

Additionally they take less energy to produce than paper bags.  They are lighter and less bulky which makes them cheeper to transport, ship and recycle.

Wouldn't it make more sense to promote the recycling of plastic shopping bags, or the use of biodegradable plastics?

Paper bags represent a significant decrease in efficiency that has more environmental impact than is being considered.

I did the research:  
The manufacturer (ULINE) rates 500 paper bags at 58lbs.  
v.s 1,000 plastic grocery bags at only 5lbs.

So. . . it would require 2,320% more fuel to transport the same number of paper bags to Walmart as it does to transport plastic. That's not even accounting for mass witch would probably increase that statistic significantly!  

Did you figure in the cost to compost the paper bag which can be returned to the earth vs the cost to continue to fill land fills and will not compost to earth in our lifetime?  Looking at nothing but the bottom line is one of the reasons the environment is in the shape it is today.

Actually I did but I was waiting to mention it.  The EPA estimates that only between 1% a of plastic grocery bags are recycled.  Because of their low density and compacted mass, the transportation and recycling energy necessary is extremely low.  One ton of recycled plastic bags saves 11 barrels of oil (EPA publication "paper or plastic").  

The EPA also states that plastic bags create 80% less solid waste than paper bags.  

So, again, I would be more in favor of a recycling program or the adoption of biodegradable plastics (corn starch or polylactic) rather than a ban that would cause economic burden, increase fuel consumption, cause inconvenience, increase food cost. . .and do more harm than good.

If it's landfill that you are worried about, plastic is actually far more sound than paper. 80% space reduction.

If it's biodegradability you are worried about, bioplastics are far more sound than paper.  

Either way, paper grocery bags are a far greater enemy to the environment than plastic.

[joiei]

This past weekend I drove from Tulsa to San Angelo, Tx.  All along the drive I saw many many plastic bags snagged in fences, in brush, in trees.  I do not remember seeing any paper bags hanging in shreds from the barbed wire fence lines.  

I am not going to argue with your facts, I just wish you lots of luck getting people to recycle the darn things.  

When the baggers at the grocery stores use paper, they tend to put much more in one bag than when using the plastic t-shirt style bags.  So many times, I have seen them put one thing in a bag then go to the next bag.  When I come from Reasor's, I will have 3 bags, when I come from Target or Walmart, I will have at least 8 or 9 for the same amount of groceries. Tends to cheapen the savings, at least in my way of looking at things.  

[Gaspar]

quote:Originally posted by joiei

This past weekend I drove from Tulsa to San Angelo, Tx.  All along the drive I saw many many plastic bags snagged in fences, in brush, in trees.  I do not remember seeing any paper bags hanging in shreds from the barbed wire fence lines.  

I am not going to argue with your facts, I just wish you lots of luck getting people to recycle the darn things.  

When the baggers at the grocery stores use paper, they tend to put much more in one bag than when using the plastic t-shirt style bags.  So many times, I have seen them put one thing in a bag then go to the next bag.  When I come from Reasor's, I will have 3 bags, when I come from Target or Walmart, I will have at least 8 or 9 for the same amount of groceries. Tends to cheapen the savings, at least in my way of looking at things.  

Can't argue with that!  The art of bagging is dead.  When I was a kid I used to work at Petty's after school bagging groceries.  We had competitions for the most efficient use of space in a bag and prided ourselves on producing the exact same weight in every bag for our customers.  

We got healthy tips depending on how impressed our regulars were with our bagging technique.  We would actually commit to memory how different customers wanted their groceries bagged.

[Conan71]

I figured out one way to recycle the plastic bags, I use them for the first layer of wrapping when I sell things on eBay. [8D]

[joiei]

If we could just train everyone to bring their own bags like some of these - http://www.reusablebags.com/store/recycled-bags-c-38.html - then maybe we could do away with the plastic t-shirt bags or maybe charge like 50 cents each.  At that price I would remember to bring my own bags after a couple of times. Especially if it is adding $4 or $5 dollars to a shopping trip.  And charge for the paper ones also.

[Ibanez]

quote:Originally posted by joiei

If we could just train everyone to bring their own bags like some of these - http://www.reusablebags.com/store/recycled-bags-c-38.html - then maybe we could do away with the plastic t-shirt bags or maybe charge like 50 cents each.  At that price I would remember to bring my own bags after a couple of times. Especially if it is adding $4 or $5 dollars to a shopping trip.  And charge for the paper ones also.

Thanks to your link I just bought a set of these!

http://www.reusablebags.com/store/heavy-duty-hemp-grocery-p-82.html#

[PonderInc]

I used to ride my bike to the store all the time.  I would tell the clerks that I didn't want any bags b/c I had a backpack and I was on my bike.  They'd just keep filling up plastic bags.  I'd take the bags over to a bench, empty everything out of the plastic bags, and pack the items directly into my backpack.  Then, I'd stuff the plastic bags directly into the recycle bin on my way out the door.

(Occasionally it was good to have an extra plastic bag...sometimes, I'd buy too much and needed to tie a loaf of bread or something onto the outside of my pack!)

Another friend takes canvas shopping bags so she doesn't get the plastic bags.  Apparently, clerks don't understand the concept.  They always want to load the groceries into plastic bags and hand them to her to put in her canvas tote bags!

[AngieB]

I saw someone using reusable bags yesterday at the Neighborhood Market and I kinda felt guilty that I wasn't. So I bought these on eBay today.

[Breadburner]

Plastic bags are great for picking up Dogsh*t....Especially on a walk in the neighborhod....Inside out palm the turd right side out tie it up and if it's the right night you don't have to go far to dispose of it....

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by Breadburner

Plastic bags are great for picking up Dogsh*t....Especially on a walk in the neighborhod....Inside out palm the turd right side out tie it up and if it's the right night you don't have to go far to dispose of it....

I see people using tulsa world paper bags for that.