An editorial about Tulsa in the Oklahoman

[swake]

Just plain wow.

Proof negative: Envy of city's success resurfaces

The Oklahoman Editorial
CAPITAL envy, which has been on the back burner in Tulsa since voters there passed a MAPS-style capital improvements program, boiled over last week after Forbes magazine named Oklahoma City the most recession-proof big city in the land.



A dismissive Tulsa newspaper editorial claims Oklahoma City topped the Forbes list "probably" because of its large government employee base. This is an oft-heard lament regarding the capital city, whose development is a decade ahead of Tulsa's largely because of MAPS and the private investment it's attracted.

Forbes doesn't mention government employment. Were that "probably" the reason for a city's recession-proof status, Washington, D.C., would lead the list every year and the rest of the list would be all be state capitals.

The conventional view is that Oklahoma City had an inferiority complex vis a vis Tulsa and Oklahoma had an inferiority complex vis a vis the nation. The latter has been assuaged by the success of OU football and Oklahomans who became famous. The former was obliterated by the rebirth of Oklahoma City in the wake of MAPS.

The relationship between Oklahoma City and Tulsa has evolved into a big brother-little sister equation, with the sister occasionally squeaking her high-pitched frustration with the older sibling. The headline on the Tulsa World editorial was "Recession proof?" The question mark speaks volumes, marginalizing the report and challenging Oklahoma City to put up or shut up.

We choose to put up with this sniveling because we think Tulsa's accomplishments are mighty and beneficial to the entire state. We wish Tulsa's opinion leaders shared our sentiments instead of retreating into petty provincialism.

The second-largest employer in Tulsa is a government entity — public schools — and the next two are nonprofit medical complexes. So profit-centered jobs don't exactly dominate the employment picture in Tulsa.

Envy is one of the seven deadly sins. In Tulsa it's a default setting.

http://newsok.com/proof-negative-envy-of-citys-success-resurfaces/article/3240939/?tm=1210295301

[swake]

quote:Originally posted by swake

Just plain wow.

Proof negative: Envy of city's success resurfaces

The Oklahoman Editorial
CAPITAL envy, which has been on the back burner in Tulsa since voters there passed a MAPS-style capital improvements program, boiled over last week after Forbes magazine named Oklahoma City the most recession-proof big city in the land.



A dismissive Tulsa newspaper editorial claims Oklahoma City topped the Forbes list "probably" because of its large government employee base. This is an oft-heard lament regarding the capital city, whose development is a decade ahead of Tulsa's largely because of MAPS and the private investment it's attracted.

Forbes doesn't mention government employment. Were that "probably" the reason for a city's recession-proof status, Washington, D.C., would lead the list every year and the rest of the list would be all be state capitals.

The conventional view is that Oklahoma City had an inferiority complex vis a vis Tulsa and Oklahoma had an inferiority complex vis a vis the nation. The latter has been assuaged by the success of OU football and Oklahomans who became famous. The former was obliterated by the rebirth of Oklahoma City in the wake of MAPS.

The relationship between Oklahoma City and Tulsa has evolved into a big brother-little sister equation, with the sister occasionally squeaking her high-pitched frustration with the older sibling. The headline on the Tulsa World editorial was "Recession proof?" The question mark speaks volumes, marginalizing the report and challenging Oklahoma City to put up or shut up.

We choose to put up with this sniveling because we think Tulsa's accomplishments are mighty and beneficial to the entire state. We wish Tulsa's opinion leaders shared our sentiments instead of retreating into petty provincialism.

The second-largest employer in Tulsa is a government entity — public schools — and the next two are nonprofit medical complexes. So profit-centered jobs don't exactly dominate the employment picture in Tulsa.

Envy is one of the seven deadly sins. In Tulsa it's a default setting.

http://newsok.com/proof-negative-envy-of-citys-success-resurfaces/article/3240939/?tm=1210295301

And a member of the Gaylord family that owns the newspaper this was printed in also owns the Sonics and got the state to give taxes to the Sonics and wants people from Tulsa to buy tickets to his team to make Oklahoma City economically viable for the NBA. I certainly don't think so.

[swake]

Here is the editorial in the World that was so "offensive". It's truthful and actually pretty complimentary to Oklahoma City:

Recession proof?


by: World Editorial Writers
5/5/2008  12:00 AM

Government payrolls a big help


Forbes Magazine, via its Web site, has dubbed Oklahoma City America's most recession-proof big city. Local boosters are justifiably bursting with pride.

According to Forbes, Oklahoma City was top-ranked among the 50 largest metropolitan areas based on employment figures, housing prices and the impact of foreclosures on local productivity.

Forbes also noted the city's robust manufacturing sector and surging prices for agricultural crops and energy.

Unmentioned, however, was probably the single most recession-proofing factor:

The fact that so many of the city's jobs are government jobs.

Oklahoma City, of course, is the seat of its own local and county governments.

And because it is the state's capital, the dozens of state agencies there employ thousands. It is next door to Tinker Air Force Base, one of the largest, if not the largest, single employer in the state. And it is home to other major federal operations, including a big Federal Aviation Administration office.

These government jobs, by and large, are very stable and insulated from the vagaries of the private sector. The salaries they pay are very stable and the home loans of the people who hold the government jobs are not likely to fall into foreclosure.

A high number of safe and stable government jobs probably constitutes the best hedge against recession.

Oklahoma City has lots to be proud of. Its citizens' willingness to tax themselves to radically improve their downtown — including manufacturing a now nationally recognized "river" out of a muddy trickle — really has the city rolling.

Now our neighbors at the other end of the turnpike can justifiably point with pride to the Forbes-bestowed honor as the nation's most recession-proof city.

They just shouldn't forget the advantage that makes that so.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/opinion/article.aspx?subjectID=61&articleID=20080505_7_A15_hGove14602

[USRufnex]

I'll preface my comments by stating that I have about as much affection for the Gaylord Death Star (aka The Daily Disappointment) as Michael Bates has for the "Whirled."

But if Tulsa had topped Forbes' list, would the Daily Oklahoman print a dismissive editorial like the Tulsa World did?

I'll give you a one word answer:  No.

It was David Arnett and the TW who printed an editorial suggesting Tulsa secede and create its own state...

Decades ago, I used to think Tulsa was intrinsicly better than OKC.  I used to think Tulsa was more progressive... and yes, cosmopolitan...  I used to think Tulsa was more forward thinking.  I also used to think Tulsa was alot more "provinicial"-- but in a good way.  And I went along with conventional Tulsa wisdom that OKC is just a huge cowtown... the Cleveland of the South...

I used to think that Tulsa wants to be like Boston when it grows up... and OKC just wants to be more like Dallas.

Moving back here, I wonder if the only argument left is:  "We have hills."

OKC has moved on.  I hope someday Tulsa does.

[FOTD]

Real Estate
City Council OKs $8M in incentives for outlet mall
May 7, 2008
OKLAHOMA CITY – The City Council approved nearly $8 million in economic incentives to help establish a massive outlet mall in western Oklahoma City on Tuesday.
The vote was 5-2 with Larry McAtee and Ronald Kelly dissenting. They asked for time to clarify the city's policy toward retail business incentives and more information about the developer, Horizon Group Properties, before committing to the plan.
"The Economic Development Trust, which I'm a member of, has been tasked with the responsibility of developing a policy or guideline for incentivizing retail," McAtee said. "Approving this retail incentivization before we have a policy in place, to me, is putting the cart before the horse."
McAtee, who represents the ward in which the mall is planned, said, "If it were to fit within the guidelines, then I would be supportive. If it's outside the guidelines, then I would be opposed to it."
Rosemont, Ill.-based Horizon plans to build a minimum of 340,000 square feet of space near Interstate 40 and Council Road at an initial investment of about $50 million, city officials said. Depending on the success of the center, another 75,000 square feet could be added later.
The mall, dubbed The Outlet Shoppes at Oklahoma City, is expected to have about $102 million in annual sales, which would provide the city with about $4 million in retail taxes. City staff reported that about half of those funds will be new to the local economy.
The development is expected to create about 1,000 new jobs with an annual payroll of $18.72 million. Those jobs will increase local sales tax by an additional $1.5 million, city staff reported. The project is also expected to create about $1.25 million in annual property taxes.
In return, the city will agree to pay for infrastructure improvements – largely traffic and drainage systems – at a cost of about $2.4 million. The city also agreed to reimburse Horizon for regional marketing expenses worth up to $5.5 million over 10 years.
The mall's construction is scheduled to begin Nov. 30 and be completed within a year.
City Manager Jim Couch reported to the council that the development will "promote sales tax base growth and offer citizens and visitors new shopping opportunities in Oklahoma City." He confirmed none of the costs will be associated with the recently approved general obligation limited tax bond authorization. The incentives will be paid for out of the city's Street & Alley and General Obligation Bond Funds and the Oklahoma City Economic Development Trust.
Horizon owns, develops, renovates and operates retail shopping centers, including a dozen factory outlet malls totaling about 2 million square feet. Most of the company's properties are in the north central part of the country near the Great Lakes, with the rest scattered from California to Pennsylvania.
Horizon's typical tenants include Tommy Hilfiger, Lane Bryant, Nice West, Gymboree, and The Gap.
Chief Executive Gary Skoien said the company started looking at Oklahoma as a potential market in 2006, and recent news from Forbes business magazine that the state is better positioned to ride out a recession helped drive the final decision to build in the metro area.
"There's no real outlet center in the state of Oklahoma," Skoien said. "And it has about the right size population for an outlet center; you don't want to be too much smaller unless there's something else going on.
"And it's kind of my sense, which has been reported a lot lately, that it's got a more resilient economy than other places. ... It's kind of diverse in a positive way," he said. "And as we started looking at it, we started realizing that some of the national retailers were doing tremendous sales in Oklahoma City."
Answering Councilman Kelly's concerns that city officials should take a closer look at Horizon's other properties before moving forward, Skoien said the company's malls have strong operations.
"We just opened a center last October in El Paso, Texas, which is a similar-size city," he said. "And it's doing just terrific. Sales are beating expectations."
Of the less than 300 outlet malls scattered across the country, Skoien said, Horizon has owned, operated or developed more than half of them. It's highly unlikely Oklahoma City will be left with a low-sales mall, he said.
"Most of the major companies have decided that outlets are a strong channel of distribution. So I think the outlet business itself, by every indication, is very strong," he said. "Unlike what's happened in the past, outlet centers are being built closer to the population base. As opposed to the one that used to be right between Oklahoma City and Tulsa (in Stroud), this is right where the people are."
The company is publicly traded in the over-the-counter market under the symbol HGPI.PK. Its stock was trading at about $4.50 Tuesday, at the lower end of its 52-week range of $4.50-7.00.


They do a better job at allocating government handouts down the pike......those pikers.

[bugo]

quote:Originally posted by swake
And a member of the Gaylord family that owns the newspaper this was printed in also owns the Sonics and got the state to give taxes to the Sonics and wants people from Tulsa to buy tickets to his team to make Oklahoma City economically viable for the NBA. I certainly don't think so.

They're making a huge mistake calling the team the Oklahoma City Supersonics (or whatever nickname they decide on).  OKC isn't big enough in itself to support the team.  The team needs the whole state to prosper.  Calling the team the Oklahoma Sonics would send a message that the team is inclusive of the entire state.  I see a huge number of Sonics jerseys being unsold because who in Tulsa wants a jersey for an OKC team?  Calling the team the OKC Sonics implies the team belongs to OKC and not to the state.  After all, you don't see the Salt Lake City Jazz, the Indianapolis Pacers, or the Minneapolis Timberwolves.  They're about to make a huge mistake.

Personally, I couldn't care less one way or the other.  I don't really care for the NBA as I'm a college b-ball fan.  But I can see they're putting OKC arrogance above inclusiveness.

[bugo]

quote:Originally posted by USRufnex

I'll preface my comments by stating that I have about as much affection for the Gaylord Death Star (aka The Daily Disappointment) as Michael Bates has for the "Whirled."


It was David Arnett and the TW who printed an editorial suggesting Tulsa secede and create its own state...

Tulsa, Sequoyah?  It has a ring to it...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_Sequoyah

[Renaissance]

quote:Originally posted by USRufnex


OKC has moved on.  I hope someday Tulsa does.

I wish this were true.  It seemed like it was true when their boosters were including Tulsa in the market talk for the Sonics and talking about a "Major League State."  But then true colors were revealed when Mick Cornett practically threw a tantrum at a press conference when asked about the team name:

http://newsok.com/article/3232124

quote:From the article:


Oklahoma City Mayor Mick Cornett was fairly stern about his feelings on the subject, too: ""It will be the Oklahoma City whatevers. It will be Oklahoma City. I care much less about the second half of the name. I'll let other people determine the nickname of the team, but it will be Oklahoma City."

Sonics chairman Clay Bennett agreed.

"Our view is that the team should be named Oklahoma City. But it will be an Oklahoma asset. It will be marketed statewide and we believe it will be supported statewide."

Bennett said there is no pressure on ownership group to make the team Oklahoma as opposed to Oklahoma City.

They want Tulsa to play the supportive quiet little brother.  We send our mayor and tax dollars to help get them their team, and at the end of the day, what OKC wants, OKC gets.  Tulsa ns are supposed to smile and go along, when the state legislature tosses the NBA a $60-$100,000,000 subsidy but can't find $780,000 for a memorial and development in downtown Tulsa?

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080502_1_A13_spanc30101

[Chicken Little]

From OSU's 2007 Economic Outlook for:

Tulsa MSA
Oklahoma City MSA

The Tulsa MSA's total non-farm employment in 2007 was 428,080, of which 54,480 were Federal, State, and Local Gov't jobs; 12.7% of Tulsa's jobs are government of some kind.  I guess the truth stings a bit.

Compare that to Oklahoma City.  OKC MSA's employment in 2007 was 574,300, of which 115,820 were Gov't; that's 20.1%.

OKC's percentage of government workers is much higher than the US Average for 2007 of 16.1% and Tulsa's is much lower than the US average.  One in five jobs in OKC is a stable, gov't job.  If you are looking for economies that are "recession proof" then, that's a factor.  I don't know what, exactly, OKC is b*tching about.

[FOTD]

I'd agree with Bugo on the Sonics but his avitar makes me uneasy.

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by FOTD

I'd agree with Bugo on the Sonics but his avitar makes me uneasy.

why because just looking at it raises your IQ?

[cannon_fodder]

quote:Originally posted by Chicken Little
The Tulsa MSA's total non-farm employment in 2007 was 428,080, of which 54,480 were Federal, State, and Local Gov't jobs; 12.7% of Tulsa's jobs are government of some kind.  I guess the truth stings a bit.

Compare that to Oklahoma City.  OKC MSA's employment in 2007 was 574,300, of which 115,820 were Gov't; that's 20.1%..

I've been saying that since I moved here!  The FAA, FCC, IRS, Air Force, State Government, OU, OU Medical Center - all government jobs.  All funded at least in part with money from Tulsa.

Of the government jobs in Tulsa, how many are paid for by folks down the turnpike?  

OKC can have whatever they want.  Success down the turnpike, in Joplin, West Arkansas... it's all good for Tulsa.  But when Oklahoma City takes things FROM Tulsa to make OKC better, then the case is pretty clear that it is NOT good for Tulsa.

Such is the case with many government jobs and my taxes for an NBA team.  I get reminded of subsidies to Oklahoma City every time my PikePass goes BEEEEEEP and another 65 cents is sent to subsidies the free roads in OKC.  

Am I bitter?  Perhaps.  But why bother denying the truth of the matter?

And why the need to reduce the discussion to calling us a whining little girl?

[Radar]

quote:Originally posted by USRufnex

I'll preface my comments by stating that I have about as much affection for the Gaylord Death Star (aka The Daily Disappointment) as Michael Bates has for the "Whirled."

But if Tulsa had topped Forbes' list, would the Daily Oklahoman print a dismissive editorial like the Tulsa World did?

I'll give you a one word answer:  No.

It was David Arnett and the TW who printed an editorial suggesting Tulsa secede and create its own state...

Decades ago, I used to think Tulsa was intrinsicly better than OKC.  I used to think Tulsa was more progressive... and yes, cosmopolitan...  I used to think Tulsa was more forward thinking.  I also used to think Tulsa was alot more "provinicial"-- but in a good way.  And I went along with conventional Tulsa wisdom that OKC is just a huge cowtown... the Cleveland of the South...

I used to think that Tulsa wants to be like Boston when it grows up... and OKC just wants to be more like Dallas.

Moving back here, I wonder if the only argument left is:  "We have hills."

OKC has moved on.  I hope someday Tulsa does.

I agree with every word.

[okcpulse]

quote:From OSU's 2007 Economic Outlook for:

Tulsa MSA
Oklahoma City MSA

The Tulsa MSA's total non-farm employment in 2007 was 428,080, of which 54,480 were Federal, State, and Local Gov't jobs; 12.7% of Tulsa's jobs are government of some kind. I guess the truth stings a bit.

Compare that to Oklahoma City. OKC MSA's employment in 2007 was 574,300, of which 115,820 were Gov't; that's 20.1%.

OKC's percentage of government workers is much higher than the US Average for 2007 of 16.1% and Tulsa's is much lower than the US average. One in five jobs in OKC is a stable, gov't job. If you are looking for economies that are "recession proof" then, that's a factor. I don't know what, exactly, OKC is b*tching about.

I agree that The Oklahoman's editorial was juvenile.  There was no need to get touchy about what Tulsa has to say.

However, if the Tulsa World editorial's argument were true, wouldn't that make Washington, D.C. America's most recession proof city?

quote:Such is the case with many government jobs and my taxes for an NBA team. I get reminded of subsidies to Oklahoma City every time my PikePass goes BEEEEEEP and another 65 cents is sent to subsidies the free roads in OKC.

Really, since when did turnpike money start getting used for free roads?  That's new to me.

quote: Tulsa, Sequoyah? It has a ring to it...

That type of divisive attitude is EXACTLY why this country might not survive the 21st Century.  Why don't Tulsa's reps tar and feather at the capitol until fair is fair instead of tossing in the towel and dream of becoming it's own state.  Last time I checked, we are STILL a deomcracy.

quote: They're making a huge mistake calling the team the Oklahoma City Supersonics (or whatever nickname they decide on). OKC isn't big enough in itself to support the team. The team needs the whole state to prosper. Calling the team the Oklahoma Sonics would send a message that the team is inclusive of the entire state. I see a huge number of Sonics jerseys being unsold because who in Tulsa wants a jersey for an OKC team? Calling the team the OKC Sonics implies the team belongs to OKC and not to the state. After all, you don't see the Salt Lake City Jazz, the Indianapolis Pacers, or the Minneapolis Timberwolves. They're about to make a huge mistake.

I agree.  Calling the team Oklahoma Sonics wouldn't hurt.  I'd love to have "Oklahoma City...", but this will be a state supported team.  ESPN will remind everyone where the Sonics play.  Mayor Cornett has done an awesome job keeping the momentum going in Oklahoma City, but in some respects, he needs to chillax.

[tim huntzinger]

OKC is nasty. Gross. Awful. Ugulee. Would rather dig ditches in T-Town than have a 9-5'er white collar in Old Cow City.  Too bad OKC is not grodey-proof as well.