Lay Off My Wife

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by custosnox

First off, let me state that I am registered as a republican, though I am not a hard core or mainstream republican.  I do my best to step back and look at any issue from the broadest veiwpoint, and come to a fair discision on it, and now what one party or the other tries to push on me.  

Now that that is out, and since the whole thing about racism has come up, I will put my two cents in on it.  I have yet to make up my mind how I will vote, but things do not look good for Obama for it.  I have several reasons for this, and yes, race is one of them.  Not because I don't think that a black man (or woman) can't be a good president, but because he has ran too much of his campaign on the fact that he is (half)black.  This, in itself, I think, adds to the racist views of America.  Because someone wants to be treated differantly because of their race ("vote for me because you want to empower a black man" is wanting to be treated differant based on race)it promotes a speration of race.  Now if he would have gotten up there and said "vote for me, and yes, I know, I'm black. What about it?" I might be a little more prone to vote for him, but he has blundered in other ways that still would make me reconcider voting for him, in addition to what type of person he comes off to me as being.  So yes, him being black can cost votes, but not always because the voter is racist.

That's odd. All the national press have been quite impressed that he never made race an issue in this campaign and only responded, quite magnificently, when the Wright issue was forcibly linked to race. Since then the only people talking race are...well, anyone but him. Sorry man, you are coming out of left field on this one.

[FOTD]

PM and WB....atta boys! You are soooo correct.
Despite his not bringing the subject of racism up (until he had to), it's inherent in society.

I really think school integration has made Obama. Today's young have lived with Black society and often adored and accepted their wonderful heritage. They hang together, play together, and even pray together. That NEVER happened until the mid 70's. It goes to show the liberals were right on this one. Those who belly ache about equalizing the playing field may see results in November they can't comprehend but will learn to accept.

Just like they will learn to accept and forgive those that say they are finally proud of their country. Count me as one of those. Not since man stepped on the moon have I felt the way I do....You see, sometimes our bitterness overshadows other times that we were proud of our great country.

[HazMatCFO]

So anyone who doesn't vote for Obama or may challenge him on policy is a closet racist?

Wow, I thought it could be because his policies are just a teency weency left of George McGovern, Dick Durbin, Dennis Kucinich and John Conyers, Jr.  

It is a weak response by Obama supporters who need to learn to support their candidate more than just claiming the opposition is racist.

[Conan71]

FOTD is using a shame tactic to make any white person who isn't leaning toward voting for Obama feel as if they have some sort of subconscious race issue.  It's sophomoric.  

There's definitely racism in America, but it's not just white on black.  There's also been subtle hints thrown out as to why Jack$on and $harpton failed as Presidential contendors- they were too black.  Obama is just white enough to be a mainstream candidate and just black enough to get the black vote out en masse in November.

I'm going to vote based the stated policies and initiatives of candidates which most closely matches my own values and paradigms.  Obama hasn't stated much of anything which appeals to my own values or paradigms.  Were his ideals closer to my own, I'd definitely vote for him.  I really couldn't give two ****s.

There's no call for someone to be hinting that anyone who doesn't vote for Obama secretly hates blacks.  That's baiting.

[Wrinkle]

I was thinking that if even Obama wants his wife laid off that much....we should just give her a pink slip.

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by USRufnex

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

Obama needs to quit being such a whiny ***** and grow some thicker skin if he wants to be President.  It might also help if he and his wife weren't a couple of closet Marxists.

If it was a Republican who did this you'd be praising him for DEFENDING HIS WIFE AND DEFENDING HIS FAMILY.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZY6WLKGkJY

Here's some of his quotes:  "The GOP, should I be the nominee, can say whatever they want to say about me, my track record."  "If they think that they're going to try to make Michelle an issue in this campaign, they should be careful because I find that unacceptable, the notion that you start attacking my wife or my family."... "low class"..."lay off my wife"...

But since he's a dem, you're gonna characterize him as a whiny *****.  Typical cheapshot republican tactic of trying everything you can to emasculate the dem candidate...

His wife grew up on the southside of Chicago... she is a very strong woman but... SHE IS NOT A POLITICIAN.

Let's see.  You've previously characterized Hillary Clinton as a communist... so, if you consider Barack and Michelle Obama as "closet Marxists" then... based on that flawed logic... you sir, are a CLOSET FASCIST.  [)]

If you should ever run for office Conan, I'd start a thread saying that if Adolf Hitler were alive, he'd be endorsing you... nothing like craptastic gotcha politics... and if you complain about any of my tactics, I'll just call you a "whiny *****."  [}:)]

RM says:  "It was perfectly fine to attack Bill on the campaign trail, but not Michelle. What is your definition of special treatment?"

Hmmm.  "It was perfectly fine to attack Bill on the campaign trail, but not Chelsea.  What is your definition of special treatment?"  There.  Fixed your post.... pot to kettle... come in kettle...

Bill Clinton is a former president and one of slickest politicians this side of Richard Nixon... it's definitely a grey area with respect to treatment of spouses and children who campaign for their family... using one out-of-context sound bite to bludgeon a candidate's wife as unpatriotic and un-American... is well... unpatriotic and un-American.

"Amerika, Amerika, uber alles"... [B)]

Okay, you've been Godwinned []

Ruf, I'm too much of a whiny ***** to ever run for office.

[FOTD]

quote:Originally posted by HazMatCFO

So anyone who doesn't vote for Obama or may challenge him on policy is a closet racist?

Wow, I thought it could be because his policies are just a teency weency left of George McGovern, Dick Durbin, Dennis Kucinich and John Conyers, Jr.  

It is a weak response by Obama supporters who need to learn to support their candidate more than just claiming the opposition is racist.

Policy? Never would the race issue enter into a policy decision under Obama nor any other President I can think of over the past 30 years. Not since the Civil Rights legislation of the 60's has there been such a thing.

But swift boating and race baiting will be a constant and all good and tolerant people will expose it and their messengers for stooping so low.

[FOTD]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

FOTD is using a shame tactic to make any white person who isn't leaning toward voting for Obama feel as if they have some sort of subconscious race issue.  It's sophomoric.  

There's definitely racism in America, but it's not just white on black.  There's also been subtle hints thrown out as to why Jack$on and $harpton failed as Presidential contendors- they were too black.  Obama is just white enough to be a mainstream candidate and just black enough to get the black vote out en masse in November.

I'm going to vote based the stated policies and initiatives of candidates which most closely matches my own values and paradigms.  Obama hasn't stated much of anything which appeals to my own values or paradigms.  Were his ideals closer to my own, I'd definitely vote for him.  I really couldn't give two ****s.

There's no call for someone to be hinting that anyone who doesn't vote for Obama secretly hates blacks.  That's baiting.

Please stop with the there have been oppressed white people too routine. "Obama is just white enough to be a mainstream candidate and just black enough to get the black vote out en masse in November." Ridiculous. Can you not judge a man by the content of his character rather than the color of his skin?

[Gaspar]

quote:Originally posted by FOTD

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

FOTD is using a shame tactic to make any white person who isn't leaning toward voting for Obama feel as if they have some sort of subconscious race issue.  It's sophomoric.  

There's definitely racism in America, but it's not just white on black.  There's also been subtle hints thrown out as to why Jack$on and $harpton failed as Presidential contendors- they were too black.  Obama is just white enough to be a mainstream candidate and just black enough to get the black vote out en masse in November.

I'm going to vote based the stated policies and initiatives of candidates which most closely matches my own values and paradigms.  Obama hasn't stated much of anything which appeals to my own values or paradigms.  Were his ideals closer to my own, I'd definitely vote for him.  I really couldn't give two ****s.

There's no call for someone to be hinting that anyone who doesn't vote for Obama secretly hates blacks.  That's baiting.

Please stop with the there have been oppressed white people too routine. "Obama is just white enough to be a mainstream candidate and just black enough to get the black vote out en masse in November." Ridiculous. Can you not judge a man by the content of his character rather than the color of his skin?

I think that's just it.  We haven't found the content yet.

All I have is:

1. He is a great speaker with the power to appeal to emotion.

2. He has  a fierce record of supporting very liberal, unsuccessful policies.

3. He proposes a very vague platform of new programs to the tune of a half a trillion dollars that seems to grow every day he is on the campaign trail.

4. He is making reckless statements regarding national security without any basis or research simply to appease crowds.

5.  When unprepared on a subject, he is still willing to engage people without the pertinent research, background, or authority necessary to make policy (big danger!).

I invite you to provide me with some additional information into his character.  Please refrain from uttering the word "Change" or making up cute nick names or using profanity.

[FOTD]

quote:Originally posted by Gaspar

quote:Originally posted by FOTD

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

FOTD is using a shame tactic to make any white person who isn't leaning toward voting for Obama feel as if they have some sort of subconscious race issue.  It's sophomoric.  

There's definitely racism in America, but it's not just white on black.  There's also been subtle hints thrown out as to why Jack$on and $harpton failed as Presidential contendors- they were too black.  Obama is just white enough to be a mainstream candidate and just black enough to get the black vote out en masse in November.

I'm going to vote based the stated policies and initiatives of candidates which most closely matches my own values and paradigms.  Obama hasn't stated much of anything which appeals to my own values or paradigms.  Were his ideals closer to my own, I'd definitely vote for him.  I really couldn't give two ****s.

There's no call for someone to be hinting that anyone who doesn't vote for Obama secretly hates blacks.  That's baiting.

Please stop with the there have been oppressed white people too routine. "Obama is just white enough to be a mainstream candidate and just black enough to get the black vote out en masse in November." Ridiculous. Can you not judge a man by the content of his character rather than the color of his skin?

I think that's just it.  We haven't found the content yet.

All I have is:

1. He is a great speaker with the power to appeal to emotion.

2. He has  a fierce record of supporting very liberal, unsuccessful policies.

3. He proposes a very vague platform of new programs to the tune of a half a trillion dollars that seems to grow every day he is on the campaign trail.

4. He is making reckless statements regarding national security without any basis or research simply to appease crowds.

5.  When unprepared on a subject, he is still willing to engage people without the pertinent research, background, or authority necessary to make policy (big danger!).

I invite you to provide me with some additional information into his character.  Please refrain from uttering the word "Change" or making up cute nick names or using profanity.

1. He is a great speaker with the power to appeal to emotion.

reply....he has intellectual appeal. Emotional appeal to a degree.

2. He has  a fierce record of supporting very liberal, unsuccessful policies.

reply...please back that up. They said the same of Clinton at this point in the campain. Just wasn't to be. Please define "very liberal".

3. He proposes a very vague platform of new programs to the tune of a half a trillion dollars that seems to grow every day he is on the campaign trail.

reply....nothing could be as costly as the last 8 years. Nothing.
http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/ObamaBlueprintForChange.pdf
While somewhat vauge, what has his opponent proposed different from what we have but flip from 2000 to flop in 2008?


4. He is making reckless statements regarding national security without any basis or research simply to appease crowds.

reply....what do you refer to as reckless statements? Be specific. And don't take comments out of the context intended by the candidate. Reckless would be to keep the war going in Iraq.

5.  When unprepared on a subject, he is still willing to engage people without the pertinent research, background, or authority necessary to make policy (big danger!).

reply....again, be specific. Big danger Dick and dry drunk Dumbya spent 8 years doing just that. So, don't give me that bs.

"I invite you to provide me with some additional information into his character."
Read, read, read. It's all over the place. How about beating off the Clittons? What type of character did that take? He assembled an amazing strategy with great people and a positive attitude.

[custosnox]

quote:Originally posted by pmcalk

quote:Originally posted by custosnox

First off, let me state that I am registered as a republican, though I am not a hard core or mainstream republican.  I do my best to step back and look at any issue from the broadest veiwpoint, and come to a fair discision on it, and now what one party or the other tries to push on me.  

Now that that is out, and since the whole thing about racism has come up, I will put my two cents in on it.  I have yet to make up my mind how I will vote, but things do not look good for Obama for it.  I have several reasons for this, and yes, race is one of them.  Not because I don't think that a black man (or woman) can't be a good president, but because he has ran too much of his campaign on the fact that he is (half)black.  This, in itself, I think, adds to the racist views of America.  Because someone wants to be treated differantly because of their race ("vote for me because you want to empower a black man" is wanting to be treated differant based on race)it promotes a speration of race.  Now if he would have gotten up there and said "vote for me, and yes, I know, I'm black. What about it?" I might be a little more prone to vote for him, but he has blundered in other ways that still would make me reconcider voting for him, in addition to what type of person he comes off to me as being.  So yes, him being black can cost votes, but not always because the voter is racist.

When has Obama ever made "being black" part of his campaign?  When has he ever said, vote for me cuz I'll empower the black man?  What did you expect him to do, put white shoe polish on his face before he decided to run?  According to some news reports, Obama's campaign offices have been vandalized and had racist graffiti spray painted, yet he has not raised this in his campaign.  I imagine it is because he knows that a black man pointing out racism scares a lot of white people.  And any reference to race makes white people like you refuse to vote for him.

Now let's back this up just a bit, since you have decided to actually try to make personal attacks on me on this issue.  First off, you are assuming I am white.  Second, you state that I refuse to vote for him.  Now, not knowing anything about me other then what I have posted on these boards, and I seldom actually post on the political threads, you are going to decide what type of person I am.  Glad to see you can decide things based on so few facts at your desposal.  

Now, back to the issue, I was obviously mistaken on the "I am black" campaign stance.  Since I am a registered republican, I have been only watching the periphials on the democratic sides.  Ever since the start, I have been hammered about the fact that he is black by just about every outlet out there, and with a lot of what has been said, it was an easy jump to assume he was on this wagon (yes, I made an assumption).  Once the primary is over, (hey, Hillary could still get it, there are super-delagets in florida after all (hanging chad anyone?)), and the election day draws near, I will look more closely at the parties involved.  I will do more research, try to reduce my own, uneducated, assanine comments, and make a decision based on hard facts based on my personal beliefs.  And in my opinion, just so you know where I stand on the issue, I think that we should do away with all hyphinated american titles, and race should be nothing more then a discription to identify a person (yes officer, it was a skinny male, with white skin that stole my wallet; Have you seen mike? he stands yea tall, slightly overweight, balding and has dark black skin?).  The last I checked all of us (US citizens that is) are Americans.  Let's all get on this boat together.  No special treatment for the color of your skin, or your place of birth.  I just wish we were closer to this then we are, but all we can do is try.

And to answer the question that I know (okay, guessing) is hanging in your mind, I am light skinned, with a mixed heritage, including black and Cherokee, though I am considered white.

[custosnox]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

quote:Originally posted by custosnox

First off, let me state that I am registered as a republican, though I am not a hard core or mainstream republican.  I do my best to step back and look at any issue from the broadest veiwpoint, and come to a fair discision on it, and now what one party or the other tries to push on me.  

Now that that is out, and since the whole thing about racism has come up, I will put my two cents in on it.  I have yet to make up my mind how I will vote, but things do not look good for Obama for it.  I have several reasons for this, and yes, race is one of them.  Not because I don't think that a black man (or woman) can't be a good president, but because he has ran too much of his campaign on the fact that he is (half)black.  This, in itself, I think, adds to the racist views of America.  Because someone wants to be treated differantly because of their race ("vote for me because you want to empower a black man" is wanting to be treated differant based on race)it promotes a speration of race.  Now if he would have gotten up there and said "vote for me, and yes, I know, I'm black. What about it?" I might be a little more prone to vote for him, but he has blundered in other ways that still would make me reconcider voting for him, in addition to what type of person he comes off to me as being.  So yes, him being black can cost votes, but not always because the voter is racist.

That's odd. All the national press have been quite impressed that he never made race an issue in this campaign and only responded, quite magnificently, when the Wright issue was forcibly linked to race. Since then the only people talking race are...well, anyone but him. Sorry man, you are coming out of left field on this one.

Just wanted to say thanks for pointing out my apparent error, while at the same time not trying to put me down for it.

[TulsaFan-inTexas]

quote:Originally posted by RecycleMichael

I can't believe the rationalization I just read. She is not a former president so we can't talk about what she says?

She is on the campaign trail every day making speeches for her husband. She says something stupid and people comment on it.

No one is attacking his kids, his parents or anyone else in the family. She is campaigning.

How is she any different than any other campaign person? Other campaign people resign when they embarrass the campaign.

I am sorry, you don't get special rules just because you are married to the candidate. I will attack Cindy McCain for her refusal to turn over tax records for 28 years.

Obama doesn't get to decide what is "acceptable".

I'm not a Mrs. Clinton supporter but Recycle Michael has a good point. I agree with RM's disagreement with Cindy McCain's refusal to turn over tax records.

First Ladies play an important role in the Presidency. I see no reason why Mrs. Obama's public statements should be disregarded considering her influence over him, as any wife has.

All of this stuff needs to be looked at, scrutinized, and considered upon; regardless of Republican, Democrat, or otherwise.

I'm not too enamored with the candidates we have (nor have I been for some time), but I sure as heck want the candidates (and their wives) looked over closely.

May the best, most capable person with the potential to be a great President win, and I mean that with all sincerity - man, woman, Democrat or Republican.

This country needs some real leadership right now.

[we vs us]

quote:Originally posted by HazMatCFO

So anyone who doesn't vote for Obama or may challenge him on policy is a closet racist?

Wow, I thought it could be because his policies are just a teency weency left of George McGovern, Dick Durbin, Dennis Kucinich and John Conyers, Jr.  

It is a weak response by Obama supporters who need to learn to support their candidate more than just claiming the opposition is racist.

As a center-left Democrat and Obama supporter, I would like to respectfully invite both you and Conan71 to ignore FOTDs more pungent ranting about race and judge Candidate Obama in the way that he seems to want to be judged: by his ability, his record to date and proposals going forward, and by his personal history and makeup (a part of which -- but certainly not all -- is his race).  

Obama himself has tried exceedingly hard to make his campaign about transcending race rather than fighting the same old battles -- which, IMHO, FOTD is doing here. But please don't assume that all of us Obama-ites out there will be pummeling you with the Ball-Peen Hammer of Racism if you want to take a hard look at him and then make another choice.

On the other hand, Gaspar, I'd like to invite you to vote for Lyndon LaRouche.  You seem so constantly disappointed with Obama that I wouldn't want your feelings hurt when he doesn't return us to the gold standard.

[pmcalk]

quote:Originally posted by custosnox

quote:Originally posted by pmcalk

quote:Originally posted by custosnox

First off, let me state that I am registered as a republican, though I am not a hard core or mainstream republican.  I do my best to step back and look at any issue from the broadest veiwpoint, and come to a fair discision on it, and now what one party or the other tries to push on me.  

Now that that is out, and since the whole thing about racism has come up, I will put my two cents in on it.  I have yet to make up my mind how I will vote, but things do not look good for Obama for it.  I have several reasons for this, and yes, race is one of them.  Not because I don't think that a black man (or woman) can't be a good president, but because he has ran too much of his campaign on the fact that he is (half)black.  This, in itself, I think, adds to the racist views of America.  Because someone wants to be treated differantly because of their race ("vote for me because you want to empower a black man" is wanting to be treated differant based on race)it promotes a speration of race.  Now if he would have gotten up there and said "vote for me, and yes, I know, I'm black. What about it?" I might be a little more prone to vote for him, but he has blundered in other ways that still would make me reconcider voting for him, in addition to what type of person he comes off to me as being.  So yes, him being black can cost votes, but not always because the voter is racist.

When has Obama ever made "being black" part of his campaign?  When has he ever said, vote for me cuz I'll empower the black man?  What did you expect him to do, put white shoe polish on his face before he decided to run?  According to some news reports, Obama's campaign offices have been vandalized and had racist graffiti spray painted, yet he has not raised this in his campaign.  I imagine it is because he knows that a black man pointing out racism scares a lot of white people.  And any reference to race makes white people like you refuse to vote for him.

Now let's back this up just a bit, since you have decided to actually try to make personal attacks on me on this issue.  First off, you are assuming I am white.  Second, you state that I refuse to vote for him.  Now, not knowing anything about me other then what I have posted on these boards, and I seldom actually post on the political threads, you are going to decide what type of person I am.  Glad to see you can decide things based on so few facts at your desposal.  

Now, back to the issue, I was obviously mistaken on the "I am black" campaign stance.  Since I am a registered republican, I have been only watching the periphials on the democratic sides.  Ever since the start, I have been hammered about the fact that he is black by just about every outlet out there, and with a lot of what has been said, it was an easy jump to assume he was on this wagon (yes, I made an assumption).  Once the primary is over, (hey, Hillary could still get it, there are super-delagets in florida after all (hanging chad anyone?)), and the election day draws near, I will look more closely at the parties involved.  I will do more research, try to reduce my own, uneducated, assanine comments, and make a decision based on hard facts based on my personal beliefs.  And in my opinion, just so you know where I stand on the issue, I think that we should do away with all hyphinated american titles, and race should be nothing more then a discription to identify a person (yes officer, it was a skinny male, with white skin that stole my wallet; Have you seen mike? he stands yea tall, slightly overweight, balding and has dark black skin?).  The last I checked all of us (US citizens that is) are Americans.  Let's all get on this boat together.  No special treatment for the color of your skin, or your place of birth.  I just wish we were closer to this then we are, but all we can do is try.

And to answer the question that I know (okay, guessing) is hanging in your mind, I am light skinned, with a mixed heritage, including black and Cherokee, though I am considered white.

I apologize.  I know many of the posters on this board, all of whom are white men.  I just assumed the same of you, but that was wrong.

I hope you do take the time to investigate Obama.  I would suggest you read his books, which IMO provide tremendous insight not only on his positions, but how he thinks.  To me, that is critical to a president--how will he approach problems that aren't even foreseen.

I would like to move beyond race, but I don't think we are there yet.  Remember, it was not so long ago that white men received all of the benefits because of their skin color.  It will be hard to complete move beyond race.  IMO, humans are just inclined to look for differences before they look for similarities.  And people tend to generalize based upon their limited observations.  Until we have more knowledge, more experience with eachother, we will continue to see race-based generalizatios on all sides.