Tulsa needs to find a way to get Amtrak service

[Ibanez]

Or we are going to be bypassed yet again.

[dsjeffries]

Considering MSA populations, I think an OKC-Tulsa-KC line would have higher ridership than the proposed OKC-Wichita-KC line.  

Wichita's MSA has 200,000+ fewer people than Tulsa's, and TONS of people travel between Tulsa and OKC already.

If the line were built between OKC and Tulsa, it could be used by Tulsans attending Sonics games, or by OKC coming to events at the BOk Center... Think of number of people who travel between Tulsa and OKC on a daily basis as it is... ah, the ridership!

[TURobY]

quote:Originally posted by dsjeffries

Considering MSA populations, I think an OKC-Tulsa-KC line would have higher ridership than the proposed OKC-Wichita-KC line.  

Wichita's MSA has 200,000+ fewer people than Tulsa's, and TONS of people travel between Tulsa and OKC already.

If the line were built between OKC and Tulsa, it could be used by Tulsans attending Sonics games, or by OKC coming to events at the BOk Center... Think of number of people who travel between Tulsa and OKC on a daily basis as it is... ah, the ridership!

That is the kind of thing we need to be telling the officials. Goodness knows that they wouldn't figure it out for themselves.

[Gaspar]

quote:Originally posted by dsjeffries

Considering MSA populations, I think an OKC-Tulsa-KC line would have higher ridership than the proposed OKC-Wichita-KC line.  

Wichita's MSA has 200,000+ fewer people than Tulsa's, and TONS of people travel between Tulsa and OKC already.

If the line were built between OKC and Tulsa, it could be used by Tulsans attending Sonics games, or by OKC coming to events at the BOk Center... Think of number of people who travel between Tulsa and OKC on a daily basis as it is... ah, the ridership!

I agree.  I would use it!

[TheTed]

But how would we afford hundreds of millions of dollars for roads if we spent a couple million a year on Amtrak?

[custosnox]

quote:Originally posted by TheTed

But how would we afford hundreds of millions of dollars for roads if we spent a couple million a year on Amtrak?

millions?  I could have sworn they said billions on the news yesterday.

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by twizzler

Looking at Amtrak's current route system map, the OKC to Wichita link makes more sense.

However, much of Amtrak's current route system does not make sense.

http://www.amtrak.com/pdf/national.pdf

OKC-TULSA-KC would make a lot of sense.

Amtrak is heavily subsidized and not particularly well run. One new city councilor tried traveling green and wanted to take the train to Austin and ride his bike in Austin. Amtrak wouldn't let him bring his bike on the train.

[bacjz00]

Reality check...

Tulsa became "out of the way" the day the bureaucrats decided I-35 would run through Wichita instead of through Tulsa.  We are officially screwed for all of perpetuity.

Effing sucks.

[Renaissance]

quote:Originally posted by bacjz00

Reality check...

Tulsa became "out of the way" the day the bureaucrats decided I-35 would run through Wichita instead of through Tulsa.  We are officially screwed for all of perpetuity.

Effing sucks.

Eh, it's not as bad as you say.  I-44 is a major connector from points north and east.  Folks heading from Chicago or NY/DC towards the West Coast typically pass through St. Louis and then Tulsa on their way to LA or SF.

But, yes, Tulsa is not getting Amtrak.  Too expensive to refit the lines and not the state's priority.

[Breadburner]

quote:Originally posted by bacjz00

Reality check...

Tulsa became "out of the way" the day the bureaucrats decided I-35 would run through Wichita instead of through Tulsa.  We are officially screwed for all of perpetuity.

Effing sucks.

Hardly...I-35 to Wichita has little traffic.....I-44 is the gateway to the east....

[perspicuity85]

quote:Originally posted by dsjeffries

 
Wichita's MSA has 200,000+ fewer people than Tulsa's, and TONS of people travel between Tulsa and OKC already.

Just to be nerdy, Tulsa's MSA has 309,303 more people than Wichita's.

I definitely agree with everyone that posted about the KC - Dallas route going through Tulsa.  There already is not an existing interstate highway that goes directly between KC and Dallas, which would seem like a good reason to install rail service.

Another ridiculous thing I noticed is that there is no direct line from Dallas to Houston.  We're talking about two metro areas that comprise over 11 million people!

Amtrak also does not serve Nashville, Louisville, or Las Vegas at all.  It just seems to me that Amtrak does a very poor job of recognizing market potential.  To me, passenger rail is all about providing transportation to places that are two close to fly to, and too far to drive to.  Or, passenger rail is simply an alternative to driving, and gas prices.  If you look at their route map, there are several major cities near each other that are not directly connected.

[dsjeffries]

quote:Originally posted by perspicuity85
Just to be nerdy, Tulsa's MSA has 309,303 more people than Wichita's.

Well, not to be nerdy, but I believe that 309,303 falls within the range of 'greater than 200,000'....

[]

[perspicuity85]

quote:Originally posted by dsjeffries

quote:Originally posted by perspicuity85
Just to be nerdy, Tulsa's MSA has 309,303 more people than Wichita's.

Well, not to be nerdy, but I believe that 309,303 falls within the range of 'greater than 200,000'....

[]

I see that I overlooked your plus sign.  My bad.

[TheTed]

quote:Originally posted by perspicuity85

quote:Originally posted by dsjeffries

 
Wichita's MSA has 200,000+ fewer people than Tulsa's, and TONS of people travel between Tulsa and OKC already.

Just to be nerdy, Tulsa's MSA has 309,303 more people than Wichita's.

I definitely agree with everyone that posted about the KC - Dallas route going through Tulsa.  There already is not an existing interstate highway that goes directly between KC and Dallas, which would seem like a good reason to install rail service.

Another ridiculous thing I noticed is that there is no direct line from Dallas to Houston.  We're talking about two metro areas that comprise over 11 million people!

Amtrak also does not serve Nashville, Louisville, or Las Vegas at all.  It just seems to me that Amtrak does a very poor job of recognizing market potential.  To me, passenger rail is all about providing transportation to places that are two close to fly to, and too far to drive to.  Or, passenger rail is simply an alternative to driving, and gas prices.  If you look at their route map, there are several major cities near each other that are not directly connected.

As far as Dallas-Houston goes, I'd blame that on that state of Texas. A few million dollars in subsidies and that state would have much better service.

Instead they rely on the long-distance Texas Eagle, which is usually hours late and doesn't go through Houston. A few million in state subsidies and Texas could connect all its big cities with a train that doesn't originate thousands of miles away and therefore is much more likely to run on time.

Look at what Illinois has done, increasing the subsidies to double the frequency of several trains. There are now four trains in each direction between Chicago and St. Louis plus the Texas Eagle.

There are also two trains in each direction between Chicago and Carbondale in addition to the City of New Orleans.

A train from Chicago to the Quad Cities and on to Iowa City also seems like a definite possiblity.

There's also been talk of a Chicago-Rockford-Dubuque line.

[PonderInc]

Amtrak linking Tulsa to OKC would be great for both cities.  I would definitely visit OKC more often if I didn't have to drive on the Turner Turnpike.  

It would have to be an express route, though. No little pesky stops on the way.  It would need to zip between the two downtown areas...and get you there as fast (or faster) than by car. It would also need to run fairly frequently to be efficient.  

I think a rail connection between the two cities would also help Tulsans get more involved in state politics. If you could take your laptop and do work on the ride back and forth, it woudn't be such a drain on productivity to get to and from OKC.  (That's one of the great things about rail...you're free to work, read, relax, sleep, and/or walk around while you travel.  Cars really suck by comparison to a good rail system.)

I remember hearing a conversation about the desirability of a rail connection between Tulsa and Wichita related to the aerospace industry.  I don't know enough about that to speak intelligently, but I think it had to do with connecting the cities with passenger and freight rail systems to increase synergies between the two cities' industries.  It would cut down on travel time because it would be the shortest distance between two points (b/c it would follow the hypotenuse of the triangle rather than the two sides, 412 to I-35).