Tulsa needs to find a way to get Amtrak service

[Transport_Oklahoma]

Establishing a link from Oklahoma to the Chicago-Los Angeles train through Wichita to Newton is important.

But so is getting Tulsa, the fifth largest MSA without passenger rail, onto the Amtrak system.  

These gasoline prices are scaring business people in Branson and there is once again interest in Saint Louis service that could continue on to Tulsa.

OKC-Tulsa will be not be cheap, but nothing worth doing ever is.

Kansas City is problematic because you need a state funding partner.  Kansas is just now getting interested in rail and the attention is on linking Kansas City, Topeka, Wichita and Oklahoma City with a day train.  Tulsa service via Fort Scott and Baxter Springs is less of a priority for them.

In the Oklahoma legislative session that just ended there was a bill (HB 2790) that would have funded these important projects with existing car tag fee revenue.  But the chairman wouldn't allow it to be heard.  There will be another attempt next year.

Let's get Tulsa a train.  Contact me.

[okiebybirth]

quote:Originally posted by Transport_Oklahoma

Establishing a link from Oklahoma to the Chicago-Los Angeles train through Wichita to Newton is important.

But so is getting Tulsa, the fifth largest MSA without passenger rail, onto the Amtrak system.  

These gasoline prices are scaring business people in Branson and there is once again interest in Saint Louis service that could continue on to Tulsa.

OKC-Tulsa will be not be cheap, but nothing worth doing ever is.

Kansas City is problematic because you need a state funding partner.  Kansas is just now getting interested in rail and the attention is on linking Kansas City, Topeka, Wichita and Oklahoma City with a day train.  Tulsa service via Fort Scott and Baxter Springs is less of a priority for them.

In the Oklahoma legislative session that just ended there was a bill (HB 2790) that would have funded these important projects with existing car tag fee revenue.  But the chairman wouldn't allow it to be heard.  There will be another attempt next year.

Let's get Tulsa a train.  Contact me.

Tulsa fell in line for OKC to get Amtrak with a "your next" promise.  Once again, a promise is not kept and Tulsa is supposed to support a connection to Newton for OKC because Kansas is behind it?  No more state funding for Amtrak from Oklahoma till Tulsa is included.  Tulsa simply cannot support OKC projects and not see any benefits coming this direction; Tulsa will writher on the vine while waiting for the state to support an area that provides 60% of state income taxes.

[bacjz00]

quote:Originally posted by Breadburner

quote:Originally posted by bacjz00

Reality check...

Tulsa became "out of the way" the day the bureaucrats decided I-35 would run through Wichita instead of through Tulsa.  We are officially screwed for all of perpetuity.

Effing sucks.

Hardly...I-35 to Wichita has little traffic.....I-44 is the gateway to the east....

Tell that to the Big XII ... the day we get the Big XII basketball tournament in Tulsa, I will be convinced that Tulsa isn't really out of the way.  Bottom line is that OKC, Dallas and KC are the true big league towns and they are directly connected via interstate highway.  Without an interstate directly to K.C. we are perceived as out of the way.  Call us "gateway to the East" or whatever, but sentimentality won't change reality.

Look I live here and have my whole life.  I want bigger things for us, but we continue to get pushed over by big brother in every possible way.  No federal funds for roads, no state funds for roads.  As long as D.C. continues to let the K.C. to Tulsa corridor go without federal funding (read: interstate), then Tulsa continues to be a joke and a blip as people "pass through" from East to West.

[okiebybirth]

quote:Originally posted by bacjz00

quote:Originally posted by Breadburner

quote:Originally posted by bacjz00

Reality check...

Tulsa became "out of the way" the day the bureaucrats decided I-35 would run through Wichita instead of through Tulsa.  We are officially screwed for all of perpetuity.

Effing sucks.

Hardly...I-35 to Wichita has little traffic.....I-44 is the gateway to the east....

Tell that to the Big XII ... the day we get the Big XII basketball tournament in Tulsa, I will be convinced that Tulsa isn't really out of the way.  Bottom line is that OKC, Dallas and KC are the true big league towns and they are directly connected via interstate highway.  Without an interstate directly to K.C. we are perceived as out of the way.  Call us "gateway to the East" or whatever, but sentimentality won't change reality.

Look I live here and have my whole life.  I want bigger things for us, but we continue to get pushed over by big brother in every possible way.  No federal funds for roads, no state funds for roads.  As long as D.C. continues to let the K.C. to Tulsa corridor go without federal funding (read: interstate), then Tulsa continues to be a joke and a blip as people "pass through" from East to West.

The ISTEA states that Oklahoma can submit U.S. Highways 69 and 75, from the Texas state line to Interstate 40 at Checotah, Oklahoma, as an interstate whenever it's ready for it.  When do you think OKC will be ready for that?

[nathanm]

quote:Originally posted by PonderInc


It would have to be an express route, though. No little pesky stops on the way.  It would need to zip between the two downtown areas...and get you there as fast (or faster) than by car. It would also need to run fairly frequently to be efficient.  

If you don't take checked luggage, stops only have to be 5 minutes apiece. It's not like a plane where everyone has to be seated and buckled in before you get going again, so a couple or even four stops along the way wouldn't be bad. If there was enough ridership, there could also be express trains that don't stop at all, but given that there's basically no way to get enough funding to do more than 70mph rail, I don't know how much time you'd really shave off.

It would be good for the state if we could get electrified high speed rail between OKC and Tulsa, though. Even at relatively slow Acela (130-160mph) speeds, you'd really cut down on the travel time between the two cities. Similar service to Dallas could put you down there in two hours or so, even going by way of OKC. Or in the longer term, how about 4 hours to Houston?

Not that we shouldn't look to the north and east, I just see and hear of more people wanting to go south.

[Transport_Oklahoma]

The U.S. House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee just passed this.

Helpful towards getting the entire Tulsa-OKC-DFW infrastructure up to shape.  Could be used for other routes as well.

Contact me to help get Amtrak service for Tulsa.

[swake]

quote:Originally posted by Transport_Oklahoma

Establishing a link from Oklahoma to the Chicago-Los Angeles train through Wichita to Newton is important.

But so is getting Tulsa, the fifth largest MSA without passenger rail, onto the Amtrak system.  

These gasoline prices are scaring business people in Branson and there is once again interest in Saint Louis service that could continue on to Tulsa.

OKC-Tulsa will be not be cheap, but nothing worth doing ever is.

Kansas City is problematic because you need a state funding partner.  Kansas is just now getting interested in rail and the attention is on linking Kansas City, Topeka, Wichita and Oklahoma City with a day train.  Tulsa service via Fort Scott and Baxter Springs is less of a priority for them.

In the Oklahoma legislative session that just ended there was a bill (HB 2790) that would have funded these important projects with existing car tag fee revenue.  But the chairman wouldn't allow it to be heard.  There will be another attempt next year.

Let's get Tulsa a train.  Contact me.

The state of Oklahoma has to start living up to it's commitments to Tulsa and the state outside of Oklahoma City. The state promised Tulsa rail service next after the Oklahoma City-DFW link. That has the be the first priority before expanding Oklahoma City's service to the north.

[waterboy]

What will the impact be to the existing turnpikes? Isn't that revenue going to decrease should rail prosper? I'm sure it figures into the math somewhere. I know those who make their living off the budgets for road repair, construction, and maintenance would fight it.

My fondest memories of travel are taking the train from downtown Union Station to KC to watch the A's play the Yankees in the early sixties. Surely those tracks are still there.

[Transport_Oklahoma]

Councilor Rick Westcott responds

[bacjz00]

Tulsa and OKC connected by rail IS LONG OVERDUE!!!  We have so much to gain by connecting these 2 vibrant Oklahoma communities.  Both are growing...both have thriving BIG businesses.  An express rail would open up so much.  That damn turnpike has out lived its usefulness and most people I know absolutely DREAD the drive.  I'd rather be catching up on a book or getting some work done during the hour and a half each way.

THIS NEEDS TO HAPPEN! WHAT CAN WE DO!!!!?

[PonderInc]

Tulsa is full of people who say "we want rail to connect OKC - TUL & KC...but we're not organized and we're not taking action.

Meanwhile, a group called the "Northern Flyer Alliance" has set out to obtain city resolutions from all the communities that line their prefered route: from Ft. Worth to KC via OKC (a route that includes Guthrie, Perry, Wichita, Topeka, etc...but not Tulsa).  They give presentations to civic organizations, cities and legislative bodies.

They are organized, and getting their word out.  We grumble and complain but do nothing.  

Rick Westcott cares, but can't do it alone.  If Tulsa is serious about this, we're going to have to get off our butts and make it happen.  We can't just sit around crying "that's not fair!"

[Renaissance]

Here's the deal--from everything I understand, Tulsa passenger rail connections are pie-in-the-sky because of the current routes and conditions of the existing rail.  Someone more knowledgeable should correct me if I'm wrong, but I was thinking OKC-Tulsa-KC rail just wasn't really cost feasible.

[Red Arrow]

quote:Originally posted by Floyd

Here's the deal--from everything I understand, Tulsa passenger rail connections are pie-in-the-sky because of the current routes and conditions of the existing rail.  Someone more knowledgeable should correct me if I'm wrong, but I was thinking OKC-Tulsa-KC rail just wasn't really cost feasible.

I have read that the existing rail between Tulsa and OKC would require re-routing as well as upgrades to the track to make it acceptable for (approx) 80 MPH travel. That is what makes it economically unfeasible, for now.

[okiebybirth]

quote:Originally posted by Red Arrow

quote:Originally posted by Floyd

Here's the deal--from everything I understand, Tulsa passenger rail connections are pie-in-the-sky because of the current routes and conditions of the existing rail.  Someone more knowledgeable should correct me if I'm wrong, but I was thinking OKC-Tulsa-KC rail just wasn't really cost feasible.

I have read that the existing rail between Tulsa and OKC would require re-routing as well as upgrades to the track to make it acceptable for (approx) 80 MPH travel. That is what makes it economically unfeasible, for now.

When does a project become economically feasible?  Do you think if Northeast Oklahoma accepts that we'll be left out of the Amtrak route for now while they build a track through Wichita for OKC that they'll find money later to add Tulsa to the system?  

Tulsa has to get serious about having alternative methods of travel besides having a car or it will become increasingly more expensive to live in the area in these times of ever increasing gas prices.

Tulsa has to quit being so willing to fund Amtrak with our tax money when there is no benefit coming to this area.  If Tulsa keeps lying down while OKC gets the benefits of state taxes for Amtrak and pro sports handouts, then this area is simply funding the progress of OKC  while dying a slow death itself.

[perspicuity85]

quote:Originally posted by okiebybirth

quote:Originally posted by Red Arrow

quote:Originally posted by Floyd

Here's the deal--from everything I understand, Tulsa passenger rail connections are pie-in-the-sky because of the current routes and conditions of the existing rail.  Someone more knowledgeable should correct me if I'm wrong, but I was thinking OKC-Tulsa-KC rail just wasn't really cost feasible.

I have read that the existing rail between Tulsa and OKC would require re-routing as well as upgrades to the track to make it acceptable for (approx) 80 MPH travel. That is what makes it economically unfeasible, for now.

When does a project become economically feasible?  Do you think if Northeast Oklahoma accepts that we'll be left out of the Amtrak route for now while they build a track through Wichita for OKC that they'll find money later to add Tulsa to the system?  

Tulsa has to get serious about having alternative methods of travel besides having a car or it will become increasingly more expensive to live in the area in these times of ever increasing gas prices.

Tulsa has to quit being so willing to fund Amtrak with our tax money when there is no benefit coming to this area.  If Tulsa keeps lying down while OKC gets the benefits of state taxes for Amtrak and pro sports handouts, then this area is simply funding the progress of OKC  while dying a slow death itself.

I think it's time for TulsaNow and Co. to call their state senators/house reps.  Tulsa - OKC Amtrak service wouldn't just benefit Tulsa, it would benefit OKC and the entire state.  Mayor Taylor and OKC's Mayor Bennett need to endorse the route and put pressure on the state.  The OKC and Tulsa metro areas comprise about 60% of the state's population, and probably contribute a much higher percentage of the state's GDP.  Perhaps a partnership between Amtrak and the Okla. Turnpike Authority could be forged to share cost and revenue sharing.  That's my idea, anyway.