120 new Brady District Lofts + retail

[TulsaFuture]

I'm new to this forum but I've been reading this thread for awhile.  I can't believe how everyone was on this bandwagon without thinking this through.  This guy has been very vague about financing.  A project this size must cost over $25 million - where is he's getting the money?  Any business can tell you that there is a credit crunch and its extremely hard to get financing.  Also, why would anyone in their right mind buy a loft or even stay in a hotel in that area before a stadium was planned?  What hotel chain would want to be in an area that was old warehouse buildings? And why won't he disclose the hotel name? Just some food for thought.  I was hoping that retail and restaurants would go in that prime space by the stadium instead of lofts.

[TulsaFuture]

Michael Bates is wrong about the baseball park at Springdale.  It cost $60 million not $32 million.  That includes the stadium, dirt work, infrastructure, land, etc.  Call the contractor and verify.

[TheArtist]

quote:Originally posted by TulsaFuture

I'm new to this forum but I've been reading this thread for awhile.  I can't believe how everyone was on this bandwagon without thinking this through.  This guy has been very vague about financing.  A project this size must cost over $25 million - where is he's getting the money?  Any business can tell you that there is a credit crunch and its extremely hard to get financing.  Also, why would anyone in their right mind buy a loft or even stay in a hotel in that area before a stadium was planned?  What hotel chain would want to be in an area that was old warehouse buildings? And why won't he disclose the hotel name? Just some food for thought.  I was hoping that retail and restaurants would go in that prime space by the stadium instead of lofts.

Its a mixed use building. The first floor would have retail and restaurants. It would have BOTH lofts and retail/restaurants. Not to mention there is still pleeeenty of development potential for those things across the street to the south. The hotel came on board after the ballpark was announced and was the same group that these developers worked with for the Atlas Life hotel.

[TulsaFuture]

Yes, but where is his money coming from?  Did you see the post above from Tulsaresearcher?  Everyone was jumping off and writing to the mayor when there is more to this meets the eye.  

I would still rather have the proceeds from the property go to the stadium trust to be used to keep the stadium vibrant and first class than to give it to a questionable developer to line his pockets.  Just my opinion.

[MichaelBates]

quote:Originally posted by TulsaFuture

Michael Bates is wrong about the baseball park at Springdale.  It cost $60 million not $32 million.  That includes the stadium, dirt work, infrastructure, land, etc.  Call the contractor and verify.

Funny how all the anonymous trolls are coming out of the woodwork the night before the TDA meeting....

Northwest Arkansas Times, April 8, 2008:

quote:From the $ 105 million bond program for road construction approved by Springdale voters in 2003 to Thursday night's premier of the Northwest Arkansas Naturals at Arvest Ballpark - a $ 32 million public facility approved by just 13 votes in July 2006 - voters in Springdale are taking extraordinary steps to move past the city's blue-collar image and full-steam ahead into the 21 st century.

Topeka Capitol Journal, April 20, 2008

quote:But Springdale, Ark., is betting its minor league baseball venture has all of the correct variables after building a $32 million stadium to lure the Royals' team out of Wichita.

Arvest Ballpark opened April 10 in Springdale with 7,820 fans to witness the Northwest Arkansas Naturals' debut against San Antonio.

Arkansas Democrat-Gazette, June 8, 2008

quote:The lights are bright and the grass is green at Arvest Ballpark.

Hailed as the premier venue in Springdale, the ballpark caters to the beer-and-burger crowd in the stands as well as the cocktail set in the luxury suites.

Elected officials and business leaders say the ballpark is proof that a new day is dawning in traditionally working-class Springdale.

But the question remains: Does the city have enough money to keep its $32 million diamond polished?

Springdale approved $50 million in bonds which covered the ballpark, plus street and sewer improvements in the area around the ballpark. The construction contract for the ballpark was for $32.1 million. (Northwest Arkansas Times, October 5, 2007.)

quote:The Naturals, the double-A affiliate of the Kansas City Royals, will play their first game in the new venue April 10 of next year. A tour of the construction site Thursday revealed the progress made since the city of Springdale awarded the $32.1-million contract to Crossland Construction of Kansas in June.

[ifsandbuts]

Ehh -- if we've learned one thing in this city, it's that we need really do need a damn plan before letting something as important as this be developed piece by piece just because someone has a bright idea. I hate to defend anything TDA does, and God knows they've handled the situation craptastically as usual, but really, the discussions with The Lofts started before the ballpark was a done deal, and, it is -- and darn well should be -- "a whole new ball game now."
At this point, it would be completely inappropriate for them to follow through with him just because he was "first in line" without ensuring that the project is the right piece in the right spot and he's the right guy to do it.
IF a development like this what's needed, he should be given the same opportunity as anyone else to compete to develop it, IF he has the background/financing/experience/etc. in place to make a success of it. That seems to be doubtful considering he's never done anything like it and if he is the guy in the court link posted above, he seems to have had a lot of problems meeting commitments in the past (and yikes! he must spend an awful lot of time in court!). But to me, that's not the issue now -- getting a good plan in place should be the priority.
I appreciate the attention Tulsa Now brings to development issues like this in general, but I get frustrated with the willingness by a lot of the leaders here to be all gung ho in support of certain projects without really vetting them thoroughly. I'm no development expert, so I'm not going to claim to know what needs to be built around the ballpark to best bolster its chances of success, but I sure as hell hope SOMEONE who knows what they are doing is working on a plan!

[OurTulsa]

quote:Originally posted by Tulsareseacher

Does it matter that this developer has a less than stellar development record?

OSCN link removed due to problems with page frame and apparently not relevant to "this" Will Wilkins
Lots of foreclosures and lots of lawsuits with this guy. I think the TDA did good to get away from these people.

That doesn't make alot of sense because Will is no more than 35 yrs. old and some of those first cases date back to 86...that would make him all of 13.  But lets say he's 40 that still puts him at 18 when that started.  Maybe that's his dad.

[TulsaFuture]

Yes the stadium could be built for $32 million but that did not include dirt work, utilities brought to the site, parking lots or drive ways.  The stadium would sit in a field without electricity or access.  Our 40 million includes utilities, etc.  I know people involved in that stadium.  You asked why we couldn't build a stadium for $32mil and I answered your question.
You needn't be sarcastic about it - I am not a troll and I don't know anything about a meeting tomorrow.  I am tired of people being negative nancys about everything!!

[MichaelBates]

quote:Originally posted by TulsaFuture

Yes the stadium could be built for $32 million but that did not include dirt work, utilities brought to the site, parking lots or drive ways.  The stadium would sit in a field without electricity or access.  Our 40 million includes utilities, etc.  I know people involved in that stadium.  You asked why we couldn't build a stadium for $32mil and I answered your question.
You needn't be sarcastic about it - I am not a troll and I don't know anything about a meeting tomorrow.  I am tired of people being negative nancys about everything!!

Crossland had a contract for $32.1 million to build a ballpark. Can you link to some online source that says they received more money than that? Doesn't a construction contract usually involve the whole job?

You don't offer any backup for your assertion that Arvest Ballpark cost $60 million, and as an anonymous poster who just now turned up, you don't have any credibility here. Tell us your name and what you do for a living before you expect any of us to believe you know what you're talking about.

[Viktoria]

The George Kaiser Family Foundation has set up another real estate entity (GKFF Real Estate II, LLC) to acquire the property at 2 North Elgin. It was specifically set up to acquire the properties surrounding the site for the ballpark. This property is going to be donated to a Title 60 Trust but my understanding is it's being set up through Tulsa Community Foundation, not TDA. Although I don't think there is much of a difference.

[carltonplace]

quote:Originally posted by TulsaFuture

Yes the stadium could be built for $32 million but that did not include dirt work, utilities brought to the site, parking lots or drive ways.  The stadium would sit in a field without electricity or access.  Our 40 million includes utilities, etc.  I know people involved in that stadium.  You asked why we couldn't build a stadium for $32mil and I answered your question.
You needn't be sarcastic about it - I am not a troll and I don't know anything about a meeting tomorrow.  I am tired of people being negative nancys about everything!!

Mayor Taylor?

[Renaissance]

quote: I am tired of people being negative nancys about everything!!

The negative nancies are those engaging in very literal backroom politics.  They are tone deaf to the needs and expectations of the citizens of Tulsa.  They think that their cadre of "stakeholders" can develop the entire ballpark district alone, and they have no idea how wrong they are.  You'd think that they would have learned their lesson by now, particuarly after the river debacle--Tulsans don't want to be spoon-fed these things. It's not that much to ask for public, open decision making and a climate where individual developers not already sitting on some board somewhere have a chance to make a meaningful contribution to the redevelopment of downtown.  Until the "leaders" of Tulsa figure this out, development downtown and everywhere is going to be stifled, stilted and poorly planned.  

I don't know who you are, but you seem to put all your trust in this clique of wealthy, insulated Tulsans who are convinced that their way is the right way and everyone else should get out of the way.  This is the same crew who wanted islands in the river and couldn't understand why everyone else thought they were idiots.  They aren't infallible and are too often completely out in left field regarding their vision for Tulsa.

[RecycleMichael]

I do agree with the comment about this forum being full of negative nancies.

I don't know why it has been this way lately. Maybe it is the heat, maybe it has been the road construction everywhere I drive, maybe it is all President Bush's fault.

But everybody seems to be accusatory, defensive, suspicious and angry.

Negativity...I'm against it.

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by MichaelBates

quote:Originally posted by TulsaFuture

Yes the stadium could be built for $32 million but that did not include dirt work, utilities brought to the site, parking lots or drive ways.  The stadium would sit in a field without electricity or access.  Our 40 million includes utilities, etc.  I know people involved in that stadium.  You asked why we couldn't build a stadium for $32mil and I answered your question.
You needn't be sarcastic about it - I am not a troll and I don't know anything about a meeting tomorrow.  I am tired of people being negative nancys about everything!!

Crossland had a contract for $32.1 million to build a ballpark. Can you link to some online source that says they received more money than that? Doesn't a construction contract usually involve the whole job?

You don't offer any backup for your assertion that Arvest Ballpark cost $60 million, and as an anonymous poster who just now turned up, you don't have any credibility here. Tell us your name and what you do for a living before you expect any of us to believe you know what you're talking about.

Michael, I question it as well, but I suppose there is a possibility that another company could have been contracted for the dirt work and site improvements and Crossland had the contract for the "sticks and bricks."

Crossland has the capability to do a turn-key job including underlying infrastructure, so I'd question the nature of a split contract on this.

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71


Michael, I question it as well, but I suppose there is a possibility that another company could have been contracted for the dirt work and site improvements and Crossland had the contract for the "sticks and bricks."

Crossland has the capability to do a turn-key job including underlying infrastructure, so I'd question the nature of a split contract on this.

I thought Tulsa Hills was split like this.